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Ben Zobrist: The Guy We Should Have Predicted

"Hindsight is like super clear."

-William "Bill" Shakepeare

When the Tampa Bay Rays traded for Ben Zobrist in the Aubrey Huff deal, the young shortstop was in the middle of an impressive season at Double-A, but many of us Rays fans figured Mitch Talbot was the biggest prize -- the 6'2" righty whose career has since spiraled back to the minors.

Zobrist, to us -- or at least myself -- was an infielder with good patience, not the doubles mashing, homer tatering, multiple position fielding, God-thanking Zorilla he is today. And when he did transform into that, it was only after two of the most miserable season in his career, a precipitating event that not only caused him to move away from shortstop, but also put our (read: my) Ben Zobrist expectations six feet deep.

After he shattered our early, gray and disappointed impressions, we began to look for reasons as to how and why. When my colleague and friend Tommy Rancel uncovered news that Ben Zobrist had used a newfangled hitting coach in the offseason between 2007 and 2008, I and many others began to think Zobrist embodied the model of the turnaround player -- the guy who truly incarnated the hope of being able to go from puke to hulk overnight (y'know, without the cream and such).

Somehow, through all of this, we were just not being terribly honest with Zobrist's numbers. The truth is: He was good all along.

Star-divide

In behavioral economics, there is a phenomena known as framing. When we go to a swanky restaurant or shop for purchasable goods online, many smart business owners lure us into spending with this technique -- they will introduce a number to us to start our reference point to make something seem cheaper or more expensive by comparison.

In one of my graduate economics classes, our professor asked us to all write down the last two digits of our respective social security numbers and then had us conduct a silent auction for some hypothetical gift package. Almost invariably, those with SS numbers ending in 00 to 49 underbid those with 50 to 99 ending digits -- our bids correlated directly with our SS numbers.

The mere sight of the other number on paper, sitting there, giving a mental reference point -- even though it was completely unrelated to the value of the gift package -- obfuscated the otherwise admirable mental capacity of the students.

I cannot speak for everyone else, but this is certainly what happened with me for Ben Zobrist.

Zobrist hit the majors like a bird hits a window pane. He slapped weak grounders at eye-rolling infielders, he flubbed balls at short, he swung at bad pitches, he looked like he had no control over his body -- he simply looked hopeless. Maybe his time in the batting cages between 2007 and 2008 really did help him calm down and focus, but if we want to be free of framing, we need to look at the entirety of his numbers.

First of all, to do so, I'm going to employ the services of Weight Runs Created Plus (wRC+) and Should Hit (ShH). I would probably prefer to use wRC+ for all of this -- because Zobrist's doubles power gets largely undervalued by ShH -- but unfortunately FanGraphs does not have his first two years in the minors.

Despite that, ShH -- which has a nice simple formula and only requires PAs, BABIP, HR totals, BB%, and K% -- serves as a pretty decent proxy for wRC+, as we can see here using FG's abbreviated stats:

Image001_medium


We can see how ShH sticks a few points under Zobrist, but in general, it stays within 0 to 15 points away from his wRC+.

Anyway, thrust your eyeballs upon this:

Image010_medium


And this:

Image005_medium


Overall, Zobrist finished his some 1600 minor league PAs with an ~140 ShH -- that's 40% above the approximate league average (approximate because ShH is not actually using any league numbers). Was he older than some of his leagues? Yeah. But he was also playing shortstop and simply crushing the minors.

Let us return to those first two years for a moment:

In 2006 and 2007, Zobrist compiled 303 PAs and a .224 BABIP to go with his 25 wRC+. Since then, he has established a career BABIP of .286, and has twice stabilized above .300 for a whole season.

In other words: the surprising part of Ben Zobrist's career did not occur in 2008 when he became the late inning lightning, the Zorilla, but rather the 2006 and 2007 seasons where he played part time and played part crap.

Feast:

Image004_medium


Zobrist has had rough spells in the majors -- including his 2010 season, though he still hit better than the average second baseman that season -- but when we look at the whole of his career, his minors included, we should be relatively unsurprised he has performed well.

Which brings us to Reid Brignac. Last year, the Cajun looked hopeless. He looked Ben Zobrist bad, hitting a 23 wRC+ with a .254 BABIP. But does that mean he's not cut out for the big leagues? No. His minor league numbers -- and his previous time in the majors -- suggest he can and should hit in the 80 to 89 wRC+ range, which is acceptable for a shortstop with strong defense.

Does that make him a better shortstop candidate than Sean Rodriguez? No. Probably not; at least not with B.J. Upton still on the roster.

And consider Elliot Johnson too: Many of us have already written him off after just 200 MLB PAs -- and this is a strong defender who over the last 6 seasons only once hit under 100 wRC+ in the minors! Including his lowest levels in the minors, Johnson has a 98 ShH -- well above average for a strong-defending shortstop.

His age and seemingly stunted development (why else would the Rays leave him in Durham so long?) makes him an unlikely candidate for a starting role in the majors, but he certainly fits the backup infielder role perfectly.

So we might be wise to give more leeway to Brignac and Johnson and other who get cold early -- they may just turn into the next guys we should have predicted.

5 recs  |  55 comments

Comments

In my graduate level physics class (in 2006, I'm now in Med school), I had a conversation with a friend about how underrated Ben Zobrist was.
Back in 2005, back when I had only been with 5 models, I had this discussion with a colleague of mine.
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express

And told the maid how good Ben Zobrist was going to be.

Every Rhodes scholar that I know agrees with me that Zobrist had serious potential in the minors.
While I was receiving my massive inheritance, the arbiter and I had a rather lengthy discussion on Ben Zobrist.
This is amazing. One afternoon when I was begging for handouts in a polluted urban setting sometime somewhere, the residence-deprived indigent next to me and I were discussing Ben Zobrist, too. Thank you all--I feel like I am part of a family.
A swing change should be included as being a reason why

I remember in a KLaw chat that in response to how Bautista surged, that changes in mechanics can be huge as Zobrist had the worst swing he ever saw for a prospect.

OT Watched Top 10 2nd basemen right now last night

Absolutely hillarious watching Harold Reynolds argue with Kenny Williams and Joe Sheehan about Ben Zobrist and the merits of the metrics that rated Zobrist so highly defensively. He said he didnt think Zobrist should even be considered a second baseman nor did he think Zobrist was very good defensively. He even cherry picked film and tried to show how inferior defensively Zobrist was to the likes of Cano, Pedroia, and Kinsler. Kenny and Sheehan “tried” to explain how defensive metrics work but it was pointless. Reynolds was trying to argue the metrics didnt take range into consideration and that Zobrist had below average range and only made the routine plays hit right at him, even showing a video of Zobrist diving for a ball he didnt have to. Very funny stuff.

I'm glad I wasn't around to see that.

I’m guessing Reynolds has seen, what?, five Rays games in his life?

Reynolds makes MLB network

nearly unbearable to watch. I don’t mind his in game off the cuff commentary during the season but the offseason discussing players from an evaluating stance is ridiculous.

I really hope he is the shill no the stats shows and doesn’t truly believe the crap he spews.

Doubt it

He said he wasnt even aware of his own defensive stats in respect to the newly adopted metrics

That was the point Sheehan was trying to make

He accused Reynolds of cherry picking and tried to explain how these stats are based on hundeds of plays.

So, so bad.

I felt embarassed to even watch that show by myself. Big fan of Sheehan and Kenny though, I watch CC a lot. Reynolds really has no argument for what he “thinks” is right, and the other 2 guys keep making good points about Zobrist.

So glad I missed that. What a shame.
I don’t understand. All of a sudden, it’s not just BA and Runs Scored, it’s OBA. And what is with O-P-S?" – ESPN Analyst Harold Reynolds (2004)
We need a FireHaroldReynolds.Com
What is OPS? Wow....
In his defense, he said what's "with" ops
This was 8 years ago at least
Was Mitch Williams involved?

I didn’t see the segment, but that guy drives me mad.

At least Mitch admits to being an idiot

And for that I like him. Reynolds is just ignorant.

I drove Mitch Williams around when he was working for the Phillies network during the world series

Not a huge fan, myself. Those people wouldn’t stop ripping the Trop and the fanbase.

Umm

the Trop and the lack of fans are justifiably rip-worthy.

Yes because that has a lot to do with analyzing the team on the field.
So good, Brad. Great look.

I don’t think I ever truly appreciated how good Zo’s numbers in the minors were. It looks like he was a doubles and walks machine even back then.

We probably shouldn’t entirely ignore his swing change…if nothing else, it seems that helped him successfully make the transition to the majors. He likely needed to make an adjustment, but considering his past success, we shouldn’t have been too surprised that he was able to do so.

I feel like that’s where Reid is now. He’s had an established track record of success in the minors, but that uppercut swing is a killer in the majors. We’re probably too pessimistic on him at times, but he does need to make adjustments to reach his potential.

Exactly this:
He likely needed to make an adjustment, but considering his past success, we shouldn’t have been too surprised that he was able to do so.

I believe most hitters make adjustments to their swing as they develop; the same may be true for that last jump into the majors too.

What established track record of success in the minors?

He’s been a pretty consistently bad hitter for several years now.

Yeah, Brignac's minors numbers say: "I better field well," to me at least.
Yeah, fair.

I was agreeing with Bradley…I think an 80-90 wRC+ is attainable for him if he adjusts. But much higher, ehhh.

I would take a repeat of 2010 any day

I know that Brignac fares much better against low ball pitchers, but does anyone know if that only applies to rhp?

If Rodriguez plays against all lhp and flyball rhp with Brignac facing nuetral and groundball rhp, does that seem like a pretty even 50/50 platoon?

So like this article a lot, but I'm uncomfortable with one of the assumptions.

Namely, that ShH tells us much about prospects.

I feel like I’m always saying that I don’t know all that much about the minors, but it’s true, so this is just me parroting things I’ve heard but not seen proven. But I’ve been under the impression that FIP (and ShH is basically FIP) is deceiving in the minors, because it was devised by studying major league players, and relatively few minor league players are equitable to major league players. People say that BABIP over relatively small samples in the minors is an indicator of prospect status, both for pitchers and hitters.

Now, I don’t like this, but neither can I refute it, and if true, it invalidates the idea that a player with good peripherals but a low BABIP (resulting in a higher ShH than would otherwise be expected) is actually underrated.

Thoughts? Links?

A fair point, Whelk. Truth be told, I'm not sure about the minors BABIP subject.

I know I’ve seen BABIP in the minors sustain itself in a much wider range than we normally see in the majors — and I imagine line drive rates and defenses have a lot to do with that — so ShH would naturally be susceptible to that kind peculiarity.

At the same time, though, as my first graph shows, wRC+ and ShH tend to stay relatively close to each other (granted, when they diverge as much as 15 points, it’s a little troubling, but since the divergences are consistent — always lower, with Zobrist, because they ignore doubles — we can get a good feel nonetheless). And since wRC+ and ShH follow each other closely even in Zobrist’s minor league numbers, I think we are okay to make a cautious assumption they fit well.

If your issue is with using wRC+ in the minors — and I can’t imagine why — then, yeah, the above analysis probably wouldn’t do it for you. I would not be surprised, however, if the observations would be relatively similar if we used OPS+ or something of that nature.

wRC+ is not park adjusted in the minors for one

There are also plenty of players who succeed all the way through AAA but can’t translate to MLB.

I don't know why, but I'm under the impression wRC+ in the minors factors in SBs.

Because the deviation between firstinning.com’s OPS+ and wOBA+ and fangraph’s wRC+ for prospects can be quite drastic.

Hmm... I'll ask around.

I know for sure the FG MLB wRC+ doesn’t include stolen bases.

Huh, I always thought it did

Because wOBA includes steals

I think you are right

wOBA includes steals. Fuld and Rodriguez had the same wOBA and wRC+ last year. Jennings and Zobrist were .001 apart in wOBA and the same in wRC+ which is likely rounding.

Got this dope straight from Appelman:

Both the majors and minors wRC+ uses steals.

Burrnnnnn

Seriously, though, way to own up to a mistake. We all make them from time to time.

So? Is there a better alternative? (Seriously, is wOBA+ or OPS+ park adjusted?)

And just because some players do not have success in the majors, few players go from 140 wRC+ to 30 wRC+ in that transition.

And — like Bill said at the beginning — this is all in hindsight, so it’s much easier to say.

Well, Oliver is park adjusted in the minors.

The MLEs don’t do what you want them to do, but at least the park adjustment is in there.

Articles like this are the reason I first came to this site.
+1

This was great.

Not interviews with pets?
Id like to see an interview with a certain bunny
"a phenomena" otherwise, nice work.
#roncomments
we can't all be wittily racist, Polkie.
Nice article

Would be interesting to use it as a possible projection tool for minor league prospects?

Yeah, that's one of the items I slowly exploring with ShH,

but I have to either recruit some help (yuck, human interaction!) or finish reading this SQL book before I have the means to really put it through the rigors.

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