The Rays have two gaping holes in their current roster. One is at the first base position and the other is at the designated hitter role.
Most who know me know that I hate a full-time designated hitter. I think it is a waste of a roster spot unless that hitter is posting at least a wRC+ of 130 or higher. I would rather reserve the designated hitter role (I do not consider it a position), especially for a team that plays half of its games on turf, as a revolving door to give the players a rest.
Johnny Damon was the full-time designated hitter for the 2011 Rays and he posted a .261/.328/.416 line with a wOBA of .328 and wRC+ of 109. He was an above-average hitter and stole 19 bases but it was an underwhelming performance and one we did not expect from Damon who has not posted an OBP that low since 2001 when he posted a .324 OBP with the Oakland A's.
To me, it looked like Damon was pressing for the first 4+ months of the season, trying his hardest to put the ball in play and get that much closer to 3000 hits. His line from the start of the season to August 28th was .263/.313/.407 and he had a mere 33 unintentional walks in 535 plate appearances. That is a far cry from a player who had five consecutive seasons of walk rates at 10% or higher and came off of a career high 11.3% walk rate in 2010.

Damon's out-of-zone swing rate was 31.3% last year, eclipsing his career worst rate of 28.6% from the prior season and making his career mark of 21.6% look like an aberration. Not coincidentally his swinging-strike rate was a career worst at 8.1%, raising his career mark to only 6.0%. To be quite honest, the last person I wanted to see at the plate was Johnny Damon because he seemed to be reaching and hacking at pitches.
But, in a small sample size from August 29th until the end of the year Damon hit .250/.384/.477 with 17 unintentional walks in only 112 plate appearances. Was this just small sample size fate rearing its ugly head or was this Damon re-finding his approach and patience?
I honestly cannot answer that last question. There really are not a lot of viable options out there outside of dumpster diving and Damon, whether you place value in it or not, was a great clubhouse leader and perfect fit with the group of guys on the team.
At first glance I really did not want Damon back as a full-time designated hitter with the 2012 Rays but, after a longer look, if the Damon who surfaced in late August is the real Damon I would have no problem re-signing him to a one-year deal.
0 recs | 218 comments
It's very possible Damon was having a bad year.
And that he just needed to calm down. I loved watching Damon in September, he really stepped up. I haven’t looked at numbers, but if he can replicate that patience, I would consider his “clubhouse presence” valuable
d.russ - January 6, 2012 via mobile
I'm really hoping he can come somewhere close to what he did from August 29th and on when he started taking walks again.
I’d take that version of Damon in a heartbeat.
jcmitchell - January 6, 2012
I'd be more than happy
to have Damon back in a Rays uniform in 2012.
MrNegative1 - January 6, 2012
Wouldn't have said this during the season, but me too.
Maybe I’m just an optimist, but I think what we got last year was Damon’s floor, and many of the other options out there will have a lower floor. The rest of this team is talented enough that I’m loathe to risk it, and if Damon can bounce back, we’ll be sitting pretty.
Whelk - January 6, 2012
I definitely never said it during the season.
I was ready to move on then I saw his 15.2% walk rate from August 29th and on and he hit 5 of his 16 HR and stol 7 of his 19 bases from that point on. I kept looking at his overall numbers and got tired of him chasing pitches that I was ready to say bye and let him chase 3000 hits elsewhere if it meant lacking the discipline he showed from the start of the season.
jcmitchell - January 6, 2012
I think a lot of people, including AF, would be
But it has to be at the right price. $5.25 mil is not exorbitantly high but honestly for this team it is a lot of $$$. Yes, I realize he was worth about a million more than that last year in WAR, but this is not a team that can afford to pay free agents to perform “up to expectations.” We would be better served pumping that money into an extension, paying for a player acquired from a trade, etc. We operate on flex spending plans. So we would need to be a little smarter with our money.
Damon should be expected to contribute anywhere from 0.5 (further regress) to 2.5 (great year) WAR. For that, the Rays should pay according to the 25% percentile of his WAR expectation range and thus around $2 – $3 MM. Then it’s worth it.
elijah.dukes - January 6, 2012
As per the Gecko
Any Damon contract longer than one year would surely put Geico back as a Rays sponsor.
bumbry - January 7, 2012
I wouldnt be massively opposed BUT
For me, his age may be a factor. Declining numbers at his age flags up warning signals.
OneTonneBaby - January 6, 2012
I would love Damon back. I know this will be attacked by the saber community but
Johnny Damon is a winner. Joe loves him at the plate and in the dugout and i’d love to see someone like Johnny get his 3000th hit as a Ray instead of the self promoting Wade Boggs
sternfan1 - January 6, 2012
I loved Boggs getting it here. Hometown boy and great guy.
jcmitchell - January 6, 2012
Eh, Damon is a decent option if there's nothing else better out there.
Which there possibly won’t be. He’ll come cheap and he’s a fan favorite, so I wouldn’t have a problem with resigning him…he’s just not nearly my first choice for our DH spot and I hope it doesn’t come to that. He’d likely end up being a 1 WAR player at DH, which certainly isn’t ideal.
My hope is that the Rays trade for a young first baseman, which would then give them enough flexibility to not need to sign a full-time DH. Not sure if that’s going to happen, though, so we’ll see.
Steve Slowinski - January 6, 2012
That would be ideal but wasn't Damon was worth 1.5 fWAR last year? And he possibly re-found his discipline late in the year.
There just aren’t any options out there although I would love Branyan on the team in any capacity. The guy can actually play some good defense at 1B too.
jcmitchell - January 6, 2012
I'm not as confident in the SSS thing.
Maybe he found his plate discipline again in August, but the fact is he’s getting old and it wouldn’t be unheard of for his discipline to slip. I prefer taking the season as a whole, because that’s what Damon is right now — a bit of the good and the bad. I see it bouncing up maybe a bit, but I’m just not confident it’ll go back up to his career norm.
At least, that’s my thought…you never know.
Steve Slowinski - January 6, 2012
Completely understood.
I usually take that same stance but the big difference struck me differently. I don’t know, maybe it’s my lack of trust in other options out there and optimisitc view but I hope it’s not a SSS thing.
jcmitchell - January 6, 2012
How does somone like Rizzo mean the Rays don’t need a DH? At least one of those two spots needs to be filled with a bat that can produce in 2012, right? Just don’t totally understand your thought process, but I’m probably missing something.
Michael Duncan - January 6, 2012
I think it means the Rays could use the DH as a revolving door to keep players fresh, especially on long roadtrips and long homestands on turf.
It would allow Maddon to DH Joyce and play and OF of Fuld, Jennings, Upton against RHP or play Guyer in RF and DH Canzler against LHP.
jcmitchell - January 6, 2012
Like option
Revolving door works Fuld, Guyer and Canzler into more playing time and allow resources to go after a more attractive option at 1B. Have moved toward this option. That being said, Damon has is a winner who has contributed. True professional with a veteran presence that can’t be underestimated.
RayJzone - January 6, 2012
I'm not sure 'veteran presence' can be estimated at all.
Hatfield - January 6, 2012 via mobile
I wonder how the Bucs feel about their experiment last year with no 'veteran presence'?
RayJzone - January 6, 2012
This is an excellent analogy.
Hatfield - January 6, 2012
Football are baseball are equal things.
Vin - January 6, 2012
one doesn't prohibit the other
Actually, acquiring a young 1B makes it easier for the Rays to take on a full-time DH, because they can rotate others to that position for a day off and allow their bench a game to start in the OF or INF. Positional flexibility and the emergence of another awesome outfielder in Jennings makes it easier for the Rays to not need positional flexibility from a DH. It would be nice if he can make a spot start somewhere, but not necessary.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
The Rays are set up to cover nearly any injury on the team
Guyer can step in for an OF injury. SP and RP injuries can be covered by awesome depth in AAA. Chirinos can step in for a C injury. The only major issue is INF, which explains why the Rays are interested in Eric Chavez to be the next Willy Aybar/Dan Johnson, etc. It also explains the Rays interest in Ryan Theriot whether mlb or milb deal. It’s also why it’s nice that Beckham is in AAA. Friedman always loves depth and injury insurance, and with the right small move or two, the Rays could have the best depth of any team in baseball.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
im fine with it. especially if we can get him to go back to his patient ways.
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
not if being patient means 3 more seasons to 3,000.
Ben Tumbling - January 6, 2012
i could care less about his quest for 3,000 or where it happens.
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
Me too. I'm just saying he might not want to be go back to his patient ways
Ben Tumbling - January 6, 2012
then HE GONE
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
Check out his AUG/SEP numbers--much more Damon-like
sternfan1 - January 6, 2012
check out kotchman's. much more kotch-like.
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
rec'd.
mr. maniac - January 6, 2012
Keep him unless we find someone clearly superior
and make him eat a pay cut. He wants those 3,000 hits. Sign him for one year plus a team option. Two more seasons and he’ll have the number. Joe likes having him too.
Professor Twain - January 6, 2012
Our lil joey is everywhere From MLBTR he writes
sternfan1 - January 6, 2012
The stalking is getting a little scary, bro
joeybw - January 6, 2012
"We know where you are at all times. That's our business."
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
it's crazy that someone would read both DRB and MLBTR, right!?!?
what’s crazier is you feel the need to post the same things on both sites.
pudieron89 - January 6, 2012
lol
mr. maniac - January 6, 2012
pick your poison
Jason Collette - January 6, 2012
I'll take Damon
And don’t view it as poison.
There is nothing negative about having Johnny Damon as a member of your organization.
Could the Rays do better at DH via trade or a Luke Scott rather than him? Certainly. But bringing him back certainly does not bring negative strings attached to it.
MrNegative1 - January 6, 2012
That graph makes it tempting to just drink poison
Damon’s okay but he’s plan b or plan c, I’d hope.
Barnacles - January 6, 2012
if he's plan b and beltran was plan a
Haven’t heard anything about the Rays being interested in Luke Scott…
We’ll see what AF comes up with.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
I'll take door #4
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
if you exclude 2011 due to injury related issues, Luke Scott is probably the best DH possibility left out there
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
.
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
Yes please
joeybw - January 6, 2012
nope - he's a Cub now
for Cashner & another guy
Jason Collette - January 6, 2012
I'm officialy pissed
joeybw - January 6, 2012
As of when?
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
2 minutes ago
RT @fantasy411: #Cubs today acquired Anthony Rizzo and RHP Zach Cates from #Padres for right-handed pitcher Andrew Cashner and outfielder Kyung-Min Na.
Jason Collette - January 6, 2012
Oh jesus christ
When do we get pissed off at Friedman for not getting involved in one of these?
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
I claim collusion on part of CHI
#crazyconspiracytheories
Transplanted - January 6, 2012
I just got there
I came up with excuses for him not taking the Reds deal then I figured with Quentin that he must not want to DH but how AF doesn’t make a better offer than this is beyond me.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
Unless they think Cashner can start
Transplanted - January 6, 2012
Quentin is fragile and 09-11 was meh
Cashner for Rizzo? Rays have a few guys better than Cashner or a combination of players better.
Jason Collette - January 6, 2012
His season high in IP is 111.1
Yup, this will work out for San Diego
Transplanted - January 6, 2012
ehhhhhh
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
Always the bridesmaid...
Jason Collette - January 6, 2012
Time to acquire some A+/AA 1B
Transplanted - January 6, 2012
At this point, I don't think we're even getting invited to the wedding.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
Forget wedding
This is like taking your sister to the prom
Transplanted - January 6, 2012
quit salivating over someone else's prospects
sternfan1 - January 6, 2012
Soon as you stop crying yourself to sleep that we haven't brought Kotchman back yet.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
his appendix void was flaring up
pudieron89 - January 6, 2012
We clearly don't have enough pitching prospects to get in a trade like this
Jason Collette - January 6, 2012
while i'm upset that we weren't in on this, i just have to wonder HOW we weren't. i'm not ready to blame Friedman yet.
but I am waiting for AndrewTorrez to come blasting in here losing his shit saying how worthless our FO is.
pudieron89 - January 6, 2012
this is essentially archer for rizzo. WTF!?!?!?!?
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
awful, awful trade for the Pads.
pudieron89 - January 6, 2012
They did Hoyer a solid
Jason Collette - January 6, 2012
Next stop
Blame the stadium
Transplanted - January 6, 2012
Pick a pair to be in the lineup:
Kotchman and Damon or Pena and Guyer?
sc_monsta1015 - January 6, 2012
The 2nd one
We need more runs and there is definatley more HR’s with Pena and Guyer. Maybe even decent contact from Guyer.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
That's what I'm thinking, too.
We were OK with Damon and Kotch last year, but, can we expect the same? There isn’t any sure thing about Pena and Guyer either, but I’d still rather go that way next year. Add Rizzo to the mix and he can be the starting 1B next year…
sc_monsta1015 - January 6, 2012
Second, by a lot.
mr. maniac - January 6, 2012
2nd pair.
jcmitchell - January 6, 2012
OMG--cancel the season, we failed to get Anthony 'Babe' Rizzo
sternfan1 - January 6, 2012
We still have Josh The Iron Horse Sale
We’re good!
Jason Collette - January 6, 2012
So you're cool starting Canzler at 1B?
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
for the foreseeable future.
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
1x a week, sure
Jason Collette - January 6, 2012
Canzler and Guyer hopefully love the Raleigh/Durham area
sternfan1 - January 6, 2012
Who do you want at 1B then
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
KOTCH
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
Derek Lee, Carlos Pena, Casey Kotchman--in that order
sternfan1 - January 6, 2012
You have Lee as your top target?
Yeah, I’m the idiot.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
I do too.
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
Really? Over Pena?
I could see that if you are factoring in money but straight up I’d take Pena in a heartbeat.
jcmitchell - January 6, 2012
yes it factorsmoney.
rglass44 - January 7, 2012
The Rays will have a MLB first baseman with a solid track record on Opening Day--Book it
sternfan1 - January 6, 2012
Matt Joyce
Jason Collette - January 6, 2012
Possibly--Depends on how they treat the DH position
sternfan1 - January 6, 2012
Pena at 1B
Vlad at DH?
Blue or CONKZILLA - January 6, 2012
Vlad is toast.
Vin - January 6, 2012
one who steals the ladies hearts with his smile perhaps?
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
goldstein has cashner between 3 and 4 * prospects baez and wellington with this comment:
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
Dude reminds me of Alex Torres
But at least Alex is a lefty. You suck, Padres.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
better pedigree, worse injury history
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
Also Cashner is already 25
Transplanted - January 6, 2012
Torres is 24.
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
That extra year is magical though
Transplanted - January 6, 2012
Torres is 24
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
did i win or just on my screen?
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
You won :(
I was first on mine but refreshed and now you’re first.
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
w000000000000000000t
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
We're all losers it seems
Ben Tumbling - January 6, 2012
:(
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
As I said on Twitter
This says more about Rizzo’s value than Cashner’s.
Jason Collette - January 6, 2012
Or the Padres are really this stupid
hmmm
Transplanted - January 6, 2012
I'm going with this
Rizzo played badly but that was less than 200 AB’s and it was Petco. His value should be higher than this.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
Jed Hoyer is Coach Klein to Theo Eptein's Coach Red Beaulieu
Ben Tumbling - January 6, 2012
Only problem with this analogy is that Hoyer and Epstein are with the same org now.
DeadeyeRR - January 6, 2012
I obviously meant Josh Byrnes
Them pretty white boys look the same.
Ben Tumbling - January 6, 2012
I hear banjos
DeadeyeRR - January 6, 2012
As hard as it is to be patient, it's best to reserve judgment until we see the return for Davis/Niemann
It doesn’t matter who isn’t a Ray, but ultimately who becomes a Ray.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
The deals lately
Which by the way all seem to involve the Padres are making us look a little too patient.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
agreed
but it’s hard to evaluate that until we see the Rays return. Only then can you compare and see whether or not the Rays were too patient on deals for the likes of Quentin, Rizzo, etc.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
Except now there are fewer ML-ready bats on the market.
Alonso, Rizzo, Quentin, all gone.
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
LoMo door has closed too
Ben Tumbling - January 6, 2012
Rizzo was ML-ready?
What had he done to show that at ML level?
Jason Collette - January 6, 2012
Hit .331/.404/.652 in AAA?
Which even if you adjust it to a .315/.385/.590 line going from PCL to IL…
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
46 K's in 153 ML PAs
Even then, KG had Rizzo ranked 6th in the Padres organization.
I like Rizzo, but there are flaws there with his defense and hitting lefties. We don’t know what AF offered and what the Padres thought of what was offered. Maybe they valued Cashner over a Archer because he had MLB experience & like the body type. Who knows
Jason Collette - January 6, 2012
This was also a good read
http://t.co/WXIYgVZF
Jason Collette - January 6, 2012
He was also one of the youngest players in the league.
Fine, maybe he needs another half-season in triple-A. Opinion unchanged.
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
if he isnt, hes close to it or never will be
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
And the market still is not bare
Carlos Pena, Andy LaRoche, Luke Scott, Mark Trumbo, Daniel Murphy/Lucas Duda, etc. There still are options…and even more, less options for them to go. The Rays will end up with at least an above-average 1B and/or above-average DH for 2012. Book it.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
Andew Friedman is the GM version of Scott Boras
Patience, patience, patience
sternfan1 - January 6, 2012
THIS
and just like Borass, Friedman always makes other GMs look stupid in the end.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
Like when he made the push for Cliff Lee in 2010 and propelled us back to the WS
Oh wait that was the Rangers
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
self owned
:(
He’s been patient enough. Make a move before Canzler and Miranda are platooning at 1B.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
you'll be in the White House before that happens
sternfan1 - January 6, 2012
I'm not questioning the moves of a GM who turns pennies into gold
and has the Rays in the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years. Of course it sucks seemingly always second fiddle in major deals—but the odds always are the Rays are not going to win those major deals because they won’t give up as many prospects as other teams or pay as much as other teams. That’s just the way it is.
The only way the Rays survive is through under-the-radar moves. And it’s a joke to question a guy for not getting a player who hasn’t done dick in the majors yet. Rizzo could end up being awesome. And he could end up a bust. It’ll take some time to see whether or not Friedman should have stepped up on that one.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
The only way the Rays survive is through under-the-radar moves.
Disagree. I’m not saying Jason Bay wins us the WS in 2008, but who knows? And he was great in 2009 so if we weren’t contending we could’ve traded him. Already mentioned Cliff Lee in 2010.
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
Cliff Lee cost Justin Smoak, which was a steep price at the time.
It was definitely worth it, don’t get me wrong. But the Rays never make that big move, because if it doesn’t work, it limits their bloodline. Rays fans have been spoiled by the top tier talent that has been coming out of the Rays system nearly every year. But the Rays cannot afford to lose Hellickson, Moore, Jennings, etc. Rather they need those cheap long-term deals.
It’s ridiculous to criticize a team for not getting Cliff Lee. And for the record, the Rays thought they had landed Bay.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
exactly
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
Exactly what? What's the downside to acquiring Cliff Lee?
We don’t win the WS and we’ve traded 2 prospects, but we get more picks. If you acquire and develop talent, it doesn’t matter. Sure didn’t decimate Texas’ farm system.
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
Being able to spend 96 million dollars on one player in free agency sure helps take the pressure off the farm system, too
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
Relevance?
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
Rangers are not as reliant on their farm system as the Rays are
Rays try to use their farm system to be competitive 8 out of 10 years…instead of burning through it, causing them to be competitive 4 or 5 years out of 10. Some would rather more emphasis made on “going for it” and sacrificing potential years for WS. A valid philosophy. Just not one the Rays use, when it comes to prospects. Money, with limitations, yes (see Soriano, Rafael), but not prospects.
Bottom line, if Rangers wanted to, they could sign Prince Fielder to be their 1B. But they chose to spend over 100 million dollars on Darvish. This gives them 2 near 100 million dollar deals in back-to-back years. Comparing the Rangers, who can dip into free agency and sacrifice prospects, to the Rays is comparing apples and oranges.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
losing matt moore
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
or helly or jennings for a half a season of moore and 2 picks
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
*half a season of lee
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
Oh no, the horror! That would mean our 2010 rotation was Price-Shields-Garza-Davis-Niemann
So basically, not any worse. And our 2011 rotation would be Price-Shields-Moore-Etc/etc with Matt Garza to trade
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
ok buddy.
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
The amazing logic of this post has convinced me
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
what do you want me to say?
This team is run to based off the fact that the playoffs are a crapshoot, so the more times you make it the more likely you are to win the WS. Your advocating trading 6 years of very good performance for a half season because you think it may help us win the WS. its short sighted. if you want a team that is run that way, there’s one just up the turnpike.
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
the best part:
smoak failing justifies the trade in your eyes yet your pissing yourself because we didnt target a guy who is much more likely to fail.
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
*youre
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
Check Smoak's PCL numbers as an older player vs. Rizzo
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
check their prospect ratings
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
Smoak got pumped up because of what he did in college, not the pros
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
As a 22-year-old in the PCL, Smoak hit .244/.363/.360
As a 21-year-old in the PCL, Rizzo hit .331/.404/.652
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
SSS. Rizzo K'd more and had more pro experience.
In 2009 (after he was drafted) Smoak was rated 23, and in 2010 he was rated 13 by BA. Rizzo was 75 prior to this year, and I doubt he moves in to the top 15 with concerns about the hitch in his swing.
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
"You just want talent because you think it may help us win the WS"
Got me.
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
lol... nice try
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
also, those two picks came in a year when we already had a shitload. i can only see what you'd say when we go signability with them.
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
change "see" to "imagine"
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
and none of those picks guarantee getting another Jennings, Moore, etc
Lee would have been awesome, but the Rays problem never was pitching—but enough offense.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
that team could actually have used more pitching
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
I'm so MAD WE DIDN"T TRADE JENNINGS AWAY WHEN HIS VALUE WAS LOW!!!
mr. maniac - January 6, 2012
Yup, that's what I said.
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
It would have taken Jennings.
mr. maniac - January 6, 2012
great point.
rec’d
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
Patience is a Guns n Roses song
This is baseball
Ben Tumbling - January 6, 2012
This only means Prince Fielder is signing with Rays
Ben Tumbling - January 6, 2012
or Nats
sternfan1 - January 6, 2012
Rays have been so quiet and annoyingly patient
This is where we BAM “Ike Davis traded to Rays” and my dream ends there…
joeybw - January 6, 2012
Daniel Murphy you mean
Ben Tumbling - January 6, 2012
Yeah, probably
joeybw - January 6, 2012
Is life just a dream for JoeyBW?
SRQman - January 6, 2012
It's a nightmare
Except when we extended Moore, that was a good day.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
he is always "tired"
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
even joey is doubting himself
sternfan1 - January 6, 2012
Guys, Bryan LaHair is now blocked
Ben Tumbling - January 6, 2012
Should of seen this coming when Theo said LaHair would be there 1B in 2012....
joeybw - January 6, 2012
You have to be trolling at this point, right:?
Hatfield - January 6, 2012
their, their, now, Hatefield.
pudieron89 - January 6, 2012
Triple blocked
Poor Jorge Cantu.
bumbry - January 7, 2012
Lots of people better be ready to eat some crow around here when Friedman goes off and does Friedman things before the end of the month
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
Noted.
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
Who is the new man-crush?
Jerry Sands or Lucas Duda?
BossmanJunior333 - January 6, 2012 via mobile
The new man crush for me is the old man crush
I want Pena back.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
yea im on board with this
Dbullsfan - January 6, 2012 via mobile
::pitches hissy fit when Pena strikes out for the 420th time in June::
Hatfield - January 6, 2012
June 9th, to be precise.
ChiBurbRaysFan - January 6, 2012
huzzah!
pudieron89 - January 7, 2012
If the Rays turn around and upgrade Damon-Kotchman for Pena-Scott
is anyone pissed? Or is that not a solid off-season?
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
Shh don't call Pena an upgrade over Kotch while sternfan is around
joeybw - January 6, 2012
It is but then we're doing it against next year
Rizzo provides, at least theoretically, stability.
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
long term solutions are always the ideal
but if Friedman can pull it off every year, then I’m not concerned. Friedman got 2.8 WAR and a .351 wOBA for 800k at 1B. This ended up being nearly break-even from 2010, when Pena posted a 3 WAR, .374 wOBA. It rattles our nerves more, but somehow, someway, Friedman has an excellent track record at getting results…to the point that all of the non-moves doesn’t even bother me a bit. And it won’t, just as long as Friedman continues to pull rabbits out of his hat, or wherever he pulls it from.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
correction, 3 WAR, .324 wOBA. Rays paid 8 million for that production. For 2.8 WAR and .351 wOBA, they paid 800k. I may not have a degree in mathematics, but I think that's pretty damn good.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
And pretty damn lucky
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
agreed
but with Friedman’s track record, I’d rather have his luck, than someone else’s skill.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
"but with Beane’s track record, I’d rather have his luck, than someone else’s skill."
~ A’sfaninminnesota, January 2007
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
until it does happen, you can't say anything
3 playoff appearances in 4 seasons. And according to ESPN’s Buster Olney, the Rays have a damn good chance of making it 4 out of 5, irregardless of upgrades at DH and 1B.
Please help me understand…what about this, exactly, are you complaining about?
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
We need runs
We lost the 2011 ALDS even though we outscored the Rangers by 5 runs. That is great pitching but we kept losing by 1 or 2 runs after taking them apart in game 1. Now sure you can try Guyer in RF and Joyce at DH but there is no one anywhere on this team that I want playing 1B.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
the Rays have always been built for the marathon season and not the short series sprint
To get the type of players the Rays ideally need cost too much. The Rays best chance for post-season success will not come from these moves. It’ll be the continued progression of Longoria, Joyce, Upton, and Zobrist.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
Yes, we need cheap guys both in money and prospects
We just let one go. Rizzo could of added to our core. I think he will be great, he’s out of Petco and it doesn’t hurt to not be known as the guy “who was traded for Adrian Gonzalez” Traded for Cashner? Where’s the pressure there?
joeybw - January 6, 2012
this frustration I understand
Especially for a team that is void of advanced bats in the high minors. But maybe the Rays were not sold on him. Maybe they couldn’t ignore his flaws. Who knows. But I’m not writing off this off-season until I see the full picture.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
luck runs out
And the hard part is how quiet the Rays keep things but all we know is their big acquisitions of this off season have been Molina and Rodney. Oh, not to forget Badenhop.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
Also, don't let Lueke slip through any cracks.
Passionate Apathy - January 6, 2012
hahahh word play 5!
joeybw - January 6, 2012
woooooof
Hatfield - January 6, 2012
off-season not over
Hasn’t this site posted tons of articles about how Friedman makes the majority of these moves this month? And now, just 6 days in, the fanbase is starting to panic? Go bore yourself with some NBA, NFL playoffs and come back in a couple weeks and then by spring training you’ll see the bigger picture.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
Rays deals come out of no where
I remember how dead the off season was last year (on offense anyway) then all the sudden we signed Damon and Manny the same night. I have no idea if the Rays have already made a deal, are close on a deal or still far off from anything.
Don’t sleep on Adams from the Cards, Craig is probably going to be the long term 1B there and Adams is a beast.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
exactly
My point is, Friedman always finds a way. And you can keep saying that until the year happens when he doesn’t. But there is no evidence that can be given yet that points otherwise. There are still plenty of options remaining that still give the Rays an upgrade at 1B and DH.
raysfaninminnesota - January 6, 2012
A chess master once said words to the effect of:
If you can’t come up with an idea, make stalling-type moves — your opponent will invariably come up with an idea and it’ll usually be a bad one.
raiseHell - January 6, 2012
So they traded him for a RP
Rizzo was traded for a SU man who MIGHT start eventually….
joeybw - January 6, 2012
Face, meet palm
Imperialism32 - January 6, 2012
Friedman loves his guys a little too much
“We’’ give you Davis for Rizzo”
“Alright, seems fair”
“Nah, actually, we can only give Archer for Rizzo”
“Yeah that works”
" You know what, the best we can do at this point is Lobstein"
“Yeah um, we’re going with the Cubs offer”
joeybw - January 6, 2012
lol joey so funny n tru thts prolly wut happnd!
pudieron89 - January 6, 2012
IT WOULDNT EVEN HAVE TAKEN COBB! ONLY FLEMING!
rglass44 - January 6, 2012
Daniel Murphy or Casey Kotchman
Pick one.
Hopefully, we wont have to because that has to be the back up to the back to the back up plan.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
Id rather have ike davis or duda
BossmanJunior333 - January 6, 2012 via mobile
Hoyer is already saying Rizzo will spend 2012 in Triple A
Hey, look at that, Theo didn’t lie LaHair will be their 2012 1B. Damnit, Marlins, I was counting on you going for Garza and trading these damn Cubs Gaby Sanchez.
joeybw - January 6, 2012
Any thoughts on bringing in
Ludwick to DH?
Blue or CONKZILLA - January 7, 2012
Would be a Friedman type of mood.
Good arm in the corner OF’s and a return to decent(not great splits) as a hitter. Don’t like the KO’s though.
budman3 - January 7, 2012
Once again we move too slowly
Jorge Cantu signed a minor league deal with the Angels.
bumbry - January 7, 2012
Has anyone thought about Fukodome or Guerrero ?
His Bill James projections are similar to Damon:
Damon: 62 wRC / .332 wOBA
Fukudome: 63 wRC / .327 wOBA
Guerrero: 68 wRC / .345 wOBA
David Fung - January 9, 2012
I can't bring my daughter to a baseball game to support someone named Fukudome.
Hatfield - January 9, 2012
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