The Rays Tank: David Price's Cutter, Jake Hager's Work Ethic, And Baseball In England
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 30, 2012 9:02 AM EST
in The Rays Tank
MLB Chatter
- Bud Selig wants to add in an extra Wild Card in 2012. What do you think: too soon, or should he wait until after realignment? I could go either way. I don't see the big deal about getting the system going this upcoming season, but if the Rays are sitting in the Wild Card lead late in the year, I may feel differently about that.
- I've generally assumed that Prince Fielder's contract was a massive overpay, but as Tom Tango spells out, it's not as bad a deal as you may think. If you look at comparable players to Fielder and how they have produced over the later half of their careers, it's not that bad. Unless, of course, you look a bit harder at that Cecil Fielder comp...
- They play baseball in England? Apparently. Craig Robinson (the Flip Flop Flyball guy) recently interviewed the head of Great Britain Baseball, and it seems like the growth of the sport over there is an uphill battle.
- If you haven't made a habit of reading David Laurila's interviews over at FanGraphs, I recommend you start. He has one with Lonnie Chisenhall (Indians infielder) up now, and they spend time talking about hitting approach. I always find it interesting to hear players get a little bit more in-depth when talking about the sport.
Rays Talk
As far as Price throwing the cutter...
Not a big fan of the backdoor cutter, other then as an occasional 2 strike pitch looking for called 3rd strike. The pitch is much more valuable busting righties in on their hands. Of course, if you don’t execute that pitch it can be a dangerous one…
td32 - January 30, 2012 via mobile
See: Shields, James (2010)
nomoredevil - January 30, 2012
Yup...
The problem with a cutter is it is a feast or famine pitch. if thrown well, it is very difficult to hit. When it is thrown poorly, it flattens out and is extremely hittable. IMO, the best time for a cutter is in a fastball count, because the hitter is aggressively looking for a fb. Well, you give him a fb, and at the last moment is “cuts”, missing his barrel and sawing him off. It’s a great pitch to have a batter put in play weakly.
td32 - January 30, 2012
Does your opinion change at all when it's in front of or behind a 97 MPH fastball in on the batter's hands? Being able to stack it with the fastball means it doesn't have to be as fine
Sure it still might get turned around once in a while, but he can get away with a lot more.
Sandy Kazmir - January 30, 2012
Every pitch you throw is more difficult to hit when you can throw 97mph...
A flat cutter is an easily hit pitch, similar to a hanging slider. The problem with throwing it backdoor is that it is more difficult to “get around it” and get it to move much. If you get around it too much, it breaks over the heart of the plate.
If you bust a righty in(from LHP) you dont need to be as fine with it. If you miss inside, it was a good purpose pitch making the hitter move his hands. Also, it makes your inside fastball better because the hitter now has cutter in the back of his mind, so a pitcher can freeze a batter on a well located inside fb.
Having said that, you are correct, when a pitcher has a better fb, he gets away with more mistakes.
td32 - January 30, 2012
Good points, thanks
I’d prefer that if he’s going to miss that he keeps it off the plate away. I like the idea that it gives the batter something else to think about and maybe get them leaning out a little more so that the inside corner is even more effective. You’re right that when he misses over the plate it’s probably his easiest to hit pitch, but I think there’s an optimum point where it makes a lot of sense to throw it. That number is probably more like 10-15% than 25-30%, but I get seriously frustrated when I see a guy throw one pitch 70+% of the time without any variation. If he’s comfortable throwing a back door cutter instead of the slider then I’m just glad to see a twist to keep batters honest and make the four-seamer look even better.
Sandy Kazmir - January 30, 2012
Does Lueke throw a backdoor cutter anymore?
Hatfield - January 30, 2012
lolz
nomoredevil - January 30, 2012
Anyone see Cafardo's article yesterday where he lists teams 1-30?
He has the Rays at #10 just ahead of the Indians, but behind the Yankees, Angels, Red Sox, Tigers and Rangers
Now everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but when a big reason for the somewhat low rating was the clubhouse chemistry lost with Johnny Damon, i question the author’s bias and agenda
sternfan1 - January 30, 2012
lol... that's awful.
rglass44 - January 30, 2012
I would think Los replaces that.
Blue or CONKZILLA - January 30, 2012
you would think, but then you don't know Nick Cafardo, hack extraordinaire
AndrewTorrez - January 30, 2012
sounds worthless, maybe bleacher report should aggressively recruit him
pudieron89 - January 30, 2012
i'm a huge Hager fan.
rglass44 - January 30, 2012
I'm a Nautica fan myself
sternfan1 - January 30, 2012
SF1 is all set to be the first guest on Rglass
FreeZorilla - January 30, 2012
rglass's fashion podcast
FreeZorilla - January 30, 2012
guarantee sf1 rocks the above the knee shorts.
rglass44 - January 30, 2012
I need to know what to wear for summer
Warde - January 30, 2012
it isn't even february yet...
rglass44 - January 30, 2012
Buy off season for big savings!
Warde - January 30, 2012
Hager is Horrible
Wizard of Id is where it’s at
nomoredevil - January 30, 2012
Gotta good feeling this will be the week we see a trade
bringing a catcher. I really like Hundley from the Pads and Topkin states he’s a trade chip for them
sternfan1 - January 30, 2012
I like Hanigan better but I guess he's not available
What do you think of Geovany Soto?
Ben Tumbling - January 30, 2012
I have Hundley above Soto, but I still like the idea
sc_monsta1015 - January 30, 2012
Soto pros/cons
Pros
- Apparently, rates highly for pitch framing and blocking
- Highest offensive potential; 875 OPS type.
Cons
- Had shoulder surgery on his throwing arm last September but supposed to be minor
- More expensive and 1 year less of team control
- Should require more in trade (my impression)
Ben Tumbling - January 30, 2012
I really like him
but is someone who’s living off of his name more than performance. Crushes lefties. Against RHP is a different story. Has a very Pena-esque BA vs RHP. He has shown the ability to have a solid OBP vs RHP, but SSS. Adds another above average bat vs LHP, and solid defensive skills, and compared to what the Rays have put behind home plate recently, even Soto’s numbers vs RHP would still be just fine.
raysfaninminnesota - January 30, 2012
Hundley looks nice
essentially a better version of shoppach with a higher contact rate (pre rays) and thus lower k%. Other than that, rates look very similar. The biggest anomaly is home/road splits, but the opposite of what you would think. He crushes the ball at petco.
I would still take soto or hundley
BossmanJunior333 - January 30, 2012 via mobile
Hows Blanks or Guzman against LHP?
Perhaps we could get Hundley and Blanks for Davis and Colome
RaysOfHope - January 30, 2012 via mobile
I think the MLB lineup is set except for C or perhaps SS
I’d settle for prospects, hopefully a boatload of them.
Ben Tumbling - January 30, 2012
Long-term 1B solution please
Right now best option is probably Matt Adams, but he doesn’t thrill me
Transplanted - January 30, 2012
Im suprised (hint) that someone hasnt written a story yet about the possibility of trading for a catcher and who might best fit
Assuming Tompkins isn’t talking out of his ass, there might be something to his speculation that the rays could look to trade for a catcher. He mentions guys like Soto, Hundley, and Suzuki, but are there any other guys out there that could be had?
Some names off the top of my head: Torrealba, Conger, Ramos, Perez, Rosario, Flores, Hanigan.
Not all of these catchers are availible but I think its at least worth the discussion.
BossmanJunior333 - January 30, 2012 via mobile
in one man's opinion
I rate the likelihood of a deal in this order: Rosario/Hundley/Soto/Suzuki/Hanigan. I don’t have much to go on, other than the fact that the Rockies could use SP, Davis would fit well in the friendly confines of Petco, and Theo’s rebuilding in Chicago and Soto is one of the bigger trade pieces he has that he might be willing to move. Suzuki because Beane moves everyone (although I hope they’d eat some coin in the deal), and Hanigan is probably more of a wish than a reality at this point.
That being said, I think I’d be very happy if any of these potential deals happened, although happier with some over others.
raysfaninminnesota - January 30, 2012
Im still waiting for Collette to tell us who the Betemit of catchers is
BossmanJunior333 - January 30, 2012 via mobile
There is an argument for and against each one
I think the rockies view rosario as the heir in 2013. He hasnt had one ab in AAA and that walk rate scares me. Davis has flyball tendencies while Niemann gb% has been getting better every year, plus they have been linked to him in the past. I do really like rosario’s arm though.
Like you said, Soto is a lot of hype and inconsistent. Career worst k% and contact rate are a concern and his bb% was second worst of career. Who knows if surgery last year played a role. Like you mentioned, much better against lhp but not horrible against same hand. Maybe that would be a good thing with a lineup that could be more vulnerable against lhp.
Lastly, Hundley has grown on me. pretty much shoppach with higher contact and less strike outs.
It would be cool to see the higher powers break a couple of these guys down.
BossmanJunior333 - January 30, 2012 via mobile
Padres have two catchers who have both dealt with injuries.
Hundley has yet to play an entire season and Baker(whom they traded for this winter) is still coming off Tommy John surgery. They probably like both going into the season but have to be concerned with how they will hold up. Which makes a deal for Hundley iffy. I think they would be interested in Davis(as a fly ball pitcher in Petco) but they may need a Lobaton/Chirinos in return as well to replace him(and they would probably still need to sign a veteran FA catcher).
Trading Davis and a catcher for Hundley would not be enough and maybe AF could get another player like RH’ed hitters Guzman(1st base/3rd/DH) or Blanks(LF’er/1st base/DH), who are now both back-ups, in a deal as well..or a decent prospect.
budman3 - January 31, 2012
Bye Rugs
Marc Topkin
Ben Tumbling - January 30, 2012
Meh
Vin - January 30, 2012
I love em so much:
Vin - January 30, 2012
I heard Lueke says the same thing
nomoredevil - January 30, 2012
Flagged for being awful.
Vin - January 30, 2012
Even though he doesn't owe us anything, I really hope when it comes to extending that he gives a discount/the Rays don't cheap out
That’s one player I’d like to see a career Ray.
benderbrodriguez - January 30, 2012
i'm imagining by that time the financial situation for the team is brighter.
rglass44 - January 30, 2012
LOL
Hatfield - January 30, 2012
Three words:
New TV Deal
raysfaninminnesota - January 30, 2012
Three more words
Viva Las Vegas
Sandy Kazmir - January 30, 2012
something's got to give.
rglass44 - January 30, 2012
I used to play baseball in the UK
enjoyed it but there’s absolutely no appetite for it over here. The club I played for folded. We were considered to have one of the better fields in the league because we had a back stop, dug outs and a few bleechers…before the game a few of us would go out and put up the outfield fence.
OneTonneBaby - January 31, 2012 via Android app
I couldnt stand the obsession with soccer when I was living in europe
Similarly, I used to play some cricket in hs during lunch and few ppl seemed really interested.
BossmanJunior333 - January 31, 2012 via mobile
Cricket is awesome
I love watching the 1-day test matches (or whatever they’re called) on TV and see the players have lunch break and eat meals and drink tea in the middle of the field.
Hey whatever happened to those two Indian cricketers the Pirates signed a while back?
Ben Tumbling - January 31, 2012
They dont actually eat in the middle of the field...
Used to love cricket, had trials for the top pro teams in the country but never made it, dont really follow it any more.
Love Soccer though, all be it support a lower league team, but season ticket holder none the less.
OneTonneBaby - January 31, 2012
one of them is in the high-minors with a modicom of success. the other is either toiling in the low-minors or out of baseball.
rglass44 - February 1, 2012
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