this guy is perhaps our best hitter at AAA, even if you count Guyer, and he hits righty. How is that valuable to this organization? What value does EJ hold to this team as a 2nd bench utility guy? Especially with the presence of Brignac? no me gusta
I have no doubt Canzler will clear waivers. Once he does, then he can choose if he wants to go back to AAA with the Rays. He might be well off to do so, considering our lack of right-handed hitting depth.
If Johnson was waived right now, a team might claim him. Also, with three or four guys now ahead of him, even if he cleared waivers, he might declare himself a free agent and try to win a spot somewhere with a clearer path to the majors. If, however, we waive him at the end of spring training when everyone else is also clearing their last few spots to get to 25, then there’s zero chance someone will claim him, which increases the chances he stays with the organization he’s spent his whole career with.
Suarez reportedly has great stuff. He’s been recovering from injuries. He’s the kind of guy some teams have grabbed in the past. If we have to drop him eventually, fine, but unlike Canzler or EJ, he’s actually a prospect, just one who’s dropped because of his injuries.
Vogt has at least improved from level to level, has a good bat, and can fake defending 5 of the 8 positions on the field. He’s probably the next in line to get waived, honestly, but the team must see something in him to have put him on the 40-man. I honestly just don’t see him as a major league player unless he steps up the hitting a notch or two as he starts catching less.
I imagine someone out there thinks Fuld has trade value, and thus he won’t get cut. I do think we’d be much better off just eliminating Fuld (who really is a replacement level player all the way around other than a hot two week stretch) and giving Guyer the 4th OF spot, but that’s giving up a possible asset for free, something this team doesn’t do (plus the lack of ability to platoon with Joyce).
Last is De La Rosa, but he has a potential spot in the future. He did very well in Durham, and is a power righty in the wait. Take out the one game where he was shellacked (cherry picking, I know I know) and he allowed 2 hits in 6 major league innings. The stats look ugly on their face, but he’s probably the second call from Durham if righties start going down. I doubt he gets waived at all.
Sam Fuld is decidedly NOT a replacement level player.
Other than that, you’ve hit it on the head, I think.
Infielders seem to be the hot ticket right now — what with Keppinger and Theriot and basically all other backup infielders already off the market while Damon, Manny, Vlad, Ordonez, Derrek Lee, Branyan, etc. are still on the market. I think the only remaining middle infielder might be Edgar Renteria.
Keeping Fuld around as trade bait. Not even close. Let’s see. Best defender. Best base runner including instincts. Best pinch hitter. Versatile. Fan favorite. Affordable. Hmmm. Not really feeling AF targeting Fuld to be dumped.
You say he did very well in Durham, but then say the stats look ugly on their face. So, which is it? People get too caught up in power pitchers. I highly doubt he makes a successful major leaguer. Canzler showed such nice RH DH potential, hate to let him go.
De La Rosa has been good the last two seasons in AA and AAA.
He is older, but he’s also a 6-7 power righty and he looks like it just may have taken him a little while to learn how to harness his control. As for Canzler, almost every organization has a guy like Canzler in it already. The Cubs let him walk before last season after a strong season in AA and the Rays have DFA him after a nice season with AAA. That tells me that teams view him as a AAAA player. There are a lot of RHB with no defense in AAA and Canzler is just another.
Why not sign Yoenis Cepedes? Seems a little disinterested in playing for Miami(curious that maybe he would feel too much pressure with such a big Cuban community) but maybe he would feel more comfortable in Tampa. Sign him for 5 years and 40 million dollars with maybe a signing bonus of 6 million….for a total of 48 million.
Trade Upton and Wade Davis(in separate deals) for the best possible package AF could find. It would have to include a good ML catcher for now and/or the future, a very good prospect for 1st base, at least two decent young arms and maybe a young OF prospect. By trading away Upton’s 7 million dollar contract and Davis’ guaranteed 9.1 over the next three years, Rays recoup about a third of Cepedes total salary. Basically, Rays would be paying for years 3-5 of his deal at about 10 million a year, when he was 29-31 years of age.
If he is as good as many feel, Rays would be getting a five tool player in his prime years. He could play CF, with Jennings remaining in LF or,as some predict, he could settle in at a corner spot, leaving Jennings in center. The future salary is large for a Rays player(but almost matches CC in his last two prime years while a Ray) and could be off set in three years by a larger local TV deal, moving Price at some point and perhaps other resources(increased attendance with a Cuban favorite?). Cespedes would still be young enough at age 31 to get another big FA payday as well. Certainly a risk and a huge under the radar stealth move but one that could pay-off now and in the next five seasons.
Yes, the Rays would have to buy into his talent, would need to sell him on the Bay area(and with stealth as too avoid a bidding war) and would have to spend more than they ever had for a FA.
…hence, the thinking out of the box strategy.
But what a splash it would be for the organization and what a potential impact it could be if he was the real deal.
If you’re going to make that kind of a commitment in an OF-rather it be BJ since he’s already proven it at the MLB level for a similar price and is only 1yr older.
But what would excite the fan base more, create more interest(and perhaps attendance) and maybe be worth the risk in the “overall” future of this team?
The front office is trying to win the World Series and that should be enough to excite the fan base. 80% of our fan base would be like " who the fuck is Yoenis Cespedes?"
Perhaps but the other 20% would be lying if they wouldn't be salivating if the Rays made such a move and would be all over this in projecting what could be.
Bye-bye Upton…hello Cespedes.
I know I would be. Who else here would admit to it?
I'd like Cespedes but at Chapman type money , AKA 6 years 30 million.
I’m not ready to get rid of Upton. I do believe this is finally the year he explodes. He’s going into his age 27 season and i really see 30HR and 50SB from him in 2012. I’ll go on record and say that he blows up like Matt Kemp.
I doubt he will sign for Chapman money. Not as an everyday player but it would be nice.
Which BTW, was only for 10.5 million dollars for the first 5 years. The other comes in the form signing bonuses which are deferred payments through 2020.
I see the logic, but I hate the idea of Canzler being picked up by somebody else. I don’t see how E.J makes the team unless they are seriously considering optioning Brignac down to Durham to work on his hitting.
im guessing this means briggy is pretty much a lock for the 25-man
rglass44 - January 27, 2012
And that Canzler is worse than Vogt.
mr. maniac - January 27, 2012
yup
rglass44 - January 27, 2012
Damn and i just bought tix to his first game as our RH platoon at 1B
sternfan1 - January 27, 2012
hopefully they sign Magglio now
RaysOfHope - January 27, 2012
Maggs hasn't started running yet
sternfan1 - January 27, 2012
what other RH bats do you think we could get to DH when Scott plays first?
RaysOfHope - January 27, 2012
Keppinger obviously.
jtmorgan - January 27, 2012
Im hoping for another RH hitter that can DH or play 1st
Magglio if he is healthy, I would also like Conor Jackson as well. I think Friedman has a couple more moves up his sleeve
RaysOfHope - January 27, 2012 via mobile
As long as he can hit, the legs can come later.
Still my favorite for a late ST addition to get 250 AB’s as the possible RH platoon at DH with a few games sprinkled in RF(when healthier).
budman3 - January 27, 2012
Uhh, not being able to run the bases is a pretty big issue
benderbrodriguez - January 27, 2012
It just means that the Rays think Keppinger/Zobrist/Scott/Pena/Joyce
Canzler/Zobrist/Scott/Pena/Joyce. And also perhaps that EJ isn’t terrible.
I don’t see it as a death knell for Canzler’s career, just a fairly complex back of the bench decision by the Rays.
Whelk - January 27, 2012
And much to some dismay he never appeared on anyone's Top 30 prospects
list outside of some of the enthusiasts in here
sternfan1 - January 27, 2012
not on mine
rglass44 - January 27, 2012
Mine either.
At least I don’t remember…
mr. maniac - January 27, 2012
I'm pissed
duh.
Patrick Relano Kim - January 27, 2012
i don't get this move,
this guy is perhaps our best hitter at AAA, even if you count Guyer, and he hits righty. How is that valuable to this organization? What value does EJ hold to this team as a 2nd bench utility guy? Especially with the presence of Brignac? no me gusta
davidsmarch - January 27, 2012
should read "how is that not valuable"
davidsmarch - January 27, 2012
Soon to be followed by a Conner Jackson invite to ST
Then there will be some organizational depth with a possible chance of earning a back-up RH’ed bat at first(and COF’er).
And no reason to think Canzler won’t clear waivers and end up back in the organization.
budman3 - January 27, 2012
wow, Watch the Red Sox pick him up
hard to believe how many bad players were kept on the roster in favor of Canzler.
XrayYankeeZulu - January 27, 2012
By the way whoever I bet that Prince Fielder wouldn't be a Ray (I think it was rglass?), you owe me a dollar
benderbrodriguez - January 27, 2012
Yeah, rglass
http://www.draysbay.com/2012/1/12/2702477/scott-deal-official-signs-for-5-million-in-2012-6-million-option#88462889
benderbrodriguez - January 27, 2012
hrmm
paypal?
rglass44 - January 27, 2012
Nah I don't care enough to actually collect
benderbrodriguez - January 27, 2012
what i figured
rglass44 - January 27, 2012
So is Keppinger for sure on a major league contract? No chance this is a minor league deal with guaranteed invited to ST perhaps?
mattc286 - January 27, 2012
Another 'meh' move
nomoredevil - January 27, 2012
wtf
For Keppinger?! Awful.
SandalsNoPants - January 27, 2012
This is all about the waiver wire game
I have no doubt Canzler will clear waivers. Once he does, then he can choose if he wants to go back to AAA with the Rays. He might be well off to do so, considering our lack of right-handed hitting depth.
If Johnson was waived right now, a team might claim him. Also, with three or four guys now ahead of him, even if he cleared waivers, he might declare himself a free agent and try to win a spot somewhere with a clearer path to the majors. If, however, we waive him at the end of spring training when everyone else is also clearing their last few spots to get to 25, then there’s zero chance someone will claim him, which increases the chances he stays with the organization he’s spent his whole career with.
Suarez reportedly has great stuff. He’s been recovering from injuries. He’s the kind of guy some teams have grabbed in the past. If we have to drop him eventually, fine, but unlike Canzler or EJ, he’s actually a prospect, just one who’s dropped because of his injuries.
Vogt has at least improved from level to level, has a good bat, and can fake defending 5 of the 8 positions on the field. He’s probably the next in line to get waived, honestly, but the team must see something in him to have put him on the 40-man. I honestly just don’t see him as a major league player unless he steps up the hitting a notch or two as he starts catching less.
I imagine someone out there thinks Fuld has trade value, and thus he won’t get cut. I do think we’d be much better off just eliminating Fuld (who really is a replacement level player all the way around other than a hot two week stretch) and giving Guyer the 4th OF spot, but that’s giving up a possible asset for free, something this team doesn’t do (plus the lack of ability to platoon with Joyce).
Last is De La Rosa, but he has a potential spot in the future. He did very well in Durham, and is a power righty in the wait. Take out the one game where he was shellacked (cherry picking, I know I know) and he allowed 2 hits in 6 major league innings. The stats look ugly on their face, but he’s probably the second call from Durham if righties start going down. I doubt he gets waived at all.
Brickhaus - January 27, 2012
You have no doubt Canzler will clear wavers?
benderbrodriguez - January 27, 2012
yeah, id be pretty surprised if he does.
some smart team that isnt in contention will have room for him.
rglass44 - January 27, 2012
Baltimore ought to claim him
They have a bizarre mix of garbage players at the corner infield and DH spots. But they’re on nobody’s “smart” list so I assume they’ll pass.
ThreeRunHomer - January 27, 2012
I heard Oakland is in the market for a DH/1B type.
I’m sure Billy will be snatching him up any second now.
ReyL - January 28, 2012
The Angels should pick him up. After all, they were willing to trade Abreu for him
#insider’d
Jason Collette - January 28, 2012
lol
benderbrodriguez - January 28, 2012
Yeah, looking back, the Canzler move should not have been so shocking.
mr. maniac - January 27, 2012
Sam Fuld is decidedly NOT a replacement level player.
Other than that, you’ve hit it on the head, I think.
Infielders seem to be the hot ticket right now — what with Keppinger and Theriot and basically all other backup infielders already off the market while Damon, Manny, Vlad, Ordonez, Derrek Lee, Branyan, etc. are still on the market. I think the only remaining middle infielder might be Edgar Renteria.
BWoodrum - January 27, 2012
Off the mark on Fuld
Keeping Fuld around as trade bait. Not even close. Let’s see. Best defender. Best base runner including instincts. Best pinch hitter. Versatile. Fan favorite. Affordable. Hmmm. Not really feeling AF targeting Fuld to be dumped.
RayJzone - January 27, 2012
Should have DFA'd De La Rosa
You say he did very well in Durham, but then say the stats look ugly on their face. So, which is it? People get too caught up in power pitchers. I highly doubt he makes a successful major leaguer. Canzler showed such nice RH DH potential, hate to let him go.
scharms - January 28, 2012
The stats don't look ugly on their face.
7.1 innings is not enough to say anything. But, 9.8 K/9 and 3.6 BB/9 will do. Only the ERA looks ugly, and we shouldn’t be paying ERA much mind.
Whelk - January 28, 2012
De La Rosa has been good the last two seasons in AA and AAA.
He is older, but he’s also a 6-7 power righty and he looks like it just may have taken him a little while to learn how to harness his control. As for Canzler, almost every organization has a guy like Canzler in it already. The Cubs let him walk before last season after a strong season in AA and the Rays have DFA him after a nice season with AAA. That tells me that teams view him as a AAAA player. There are a lot of RHB with no defense in AAA and Canzler is just another.
ReyL - January 28, 2012
I meant his major league stats
In a tiny sample size. In the much larger AAA sample, he’s done well.
Brickhaus - January 28, 2012
Here's an outside the box thought...
Why not sign Yoenis Cepedes? Seems a little disinterested in playing for Miami(curious that maybe he would feel too much pressure with such a big Cuban community) but maybe he would feel more comfortable in Tampa. Sign him for 5 years and 40 million dollars with maybe a signing bonus of 6 million….for a total of 48 million.
Trade Upton and Wade Davis(in separate deals) for the best possible package AF could find. It would have to include a good ML catcher for now and/or the future, a very good prospect for 1st base, at least two decent young arms and maybe a young OF prospect. By trading away Upton’s 7 million dollar contract and Davis’ guaranteed 9.1 over the next three years, Rays recoup about a third of Cepedes total salary. Basically, Rays would be paying for years 3-5 of his deal at about 10 million a year, when he was 29-31 years of age.
If he is as good as many feel, Rays would be getting a five tool player in his prime years. He could play CF, with Jennings remaining in LF or,as some predict, he could settle in at a corner spot, leaving Jennings in center. The future salary is large for a Rays player(but almost matches CC in his last two prime years while a Ray) and could be off set in three years by a larger local TV deal, moving Price at some point and perhaps other resources(increased attendance with a Cuban favorite?). Cespedes would still be young enough at age 31 to get another big FA payday as well. Certainly a risk and a huge under the radar stealth move but one that could pay-off now and in the next five seasons.
budman3 - January 27, 2012
I'll say that signing Cespedes is the only way that i would condone trading Upton before the season.
and if we do trade Upton and Davis in separate deals , then it would be for the best haul of prospects and not for a position of need.
Peter Piontek - January 27, 2012
You want to commit 48 million to Yoenis Cespedes? This is the Rays we're talking about here
benderbrodriguez - January 27, 2012
Yeah, even if he is everything he might be, the lack of information makes the risk huge.
Whelk - January 27, 2012
Yes, the Rays would have to buy into his talent, would need to sell him on the Bay area(and with stealth as too avoid a bidding war) and would have to spend more than they ever had for a FA.
…hence, the thinking out of the box strategy.
But what a splash it would be for the organization and what a potential impact it could be if he was the real deal.
budman3 - January 27, 2012
Why not just re-sign Upton
If you’re going to make that kind of a commitment in an OF-rather it be BJ since he’s already proven it at the MLB level for a similar price and is only 1yr older.
Transplanted - January 27, 2012 via mobile
This
Although I have absolutely no clue what BJ is going to get on the market
benderbrodriguez - January 27, 2012
My guess would be 5 years and about 45 million.
if he continues to hover around 3-4 WAR.
Peter Piontek - January 27, 2012
We better sign him before the offseason. Don't want to get in a bidding war with the Nats.
mr. maniac - January 27, 2012
Simple answer?
Out with the old and in with the new.
budman3 - January 27, 2012
There is definitely a less than 50% chance Cespedes will be a consistent 4 WAR and up player like Beej
benderbrodriguez - January 27, 2012
Pretty much.
I like Cespedes a lot but he’s either going to be much better than BJ or be a huge flop in my opinion.
Peter Piontek - January 27, 2012
Well, he could end up being like a consistent 2-3 win player
benderbrodriguez - January 27, 2012
But I get your point about him having elite potential
benderbrodriguez - January 27, 2012
Yeah , I know it's an extreme SSS but his winter ball numbers are not much to talk about.
for all we know , he is just a freak of nature type athlete and not much more.
Peter Piontek - January 27, 2012
That is what every team must evaluate, for sure.
But what would excite the fan base more, create more interest(and perhaps attendance) and maybe be worth the risk in the “overall” future of this team?
…re-sign Upton or make a splash with Cespedes?
budman3 - January 27, 2012
Can't worry about exciting the fan base.
The front office is trying to win the World Series and that should be enough to excite the fan base. 80% of our fan base would be like " who the fuck is Yoenis Cespedes?"
Peter Piontek - January 27, 2012
Perhaps but the other 20% would be lying if they wouldn't be salivating if the Rays made such a move and would be all over this in projecting what could be.
Bye-bye Upton…hello Cespedes.
I know I would be. Who else here would admit to it?
budman3 - January 27, 2012
I'd like Cespedes but at Chapman type money , AKA 6 years 30 million.
I’m not ready to get rid of Upton. I do believe this is finally the year he explodes. He’s going into his age 27 season and i really see 30HR and 50SB from him in 2012. I’ll go on record and say that he blows up like Matt Kemp.
Peter Piontek - January 27, 2012
I doubt he will sign for Chapman money. Not as an everyday player but it would be nice.
Which BTW, was only for 10.5 million dollars for the first 5 years. The other comes in the form signing bonuses which are deferred payments through 2020.
budman3 - January 27, 2012
You think Upton wants to stay here?
Put yourself in his shoes
Jason Collette - January 28, 2012
It has to be taken into consideration
budman3 - January 28, 2012
I'd rather give Upton 4-48 than Cespedes 5-48.
ReyL - January 28, 2012
Russ and Nevin, been a devasting few weeks
FreeZorilla - January 27, 2012
At least you were right on Ben Zobrist
benderbrodriguez - January 27, 2012
.
Sandy Kazmir - January 27, 2012
Pretty shocked by this move.
I see the logic, but I hate the idea of Canzler being picked up by somebody else. I don’t see how E.J makes the team unless they are seriously considering optioning Brignac down to Durham to work on his hitting.
ega05me - January 28, 2012
Just another move to rubber stamp what i and others have been saying all off season
this team is being constructed to win now. There will be no trade of BJ Upton, no 1B platoon of Canzler/Miranda/???, no 500 PAs for Brandon Guyer
Every FA signed has been a proven seasoned veteran and i’d be surprised as i said from earlier that they leave the catching to Molina/Lobaton/Chirinos
Also i suspect they still may add a RH bat as a PH/DH and very part time OFer
sternfan1 - January 28, 2012
you retroactively claiming credit for predictions is hilarious
Release Jamie Shields!
AndrewTorrez - January 28, 2012
just ignore most of it, he's doing it for the attention. credit him when he says cogent things, ignore the pining.
pudieron89 - January 28, 2012
2/3 of Kotchman, Damon, and Shoppach will be back
BOOK IT
benderbrodriguez - January 28, 2012
wrong and happy, but would still like Shop v what we have as a back up now
sternfan1 - January 28, 2012
Even last year Shop continued to hit lefties well
benderbrodriguez - January 28, 2012
The team is always being structured to win now. Great job, Capt. Obvious
Sandy Kazmir - January 28, 2012
Last season it wasn't
We traded a top of the rotation arm for prospects who weren’t ready to contribute immediately
benderbrodriguez - January 28, 2012
at least you're an equal opportunity antagonizer
sternfan1 - January 28, 2012
You can do both, or at least Friedman can. That team was set up to win today and tomorrow just like every team since 2007
Sandy Kazmir - January 29, 2012
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