At the suggestion of a few trusted and esteemed members of this community, we admins have decided to open up a thread for people to share their opinions on the direction the site has taken since the end of the regular season. This was last done nearly two years ago so clearly we are a bit overdue. We are interested in hearing your thoughts on what has transpired as well as what you would like to see on this site in the coming season that you have not yet seen.
In case you've forgotten the guidelines of this site, all we ask is this:
1. No personal attacks.
2. No slurs.
3. Keep an open mind, and use logic in arguments.
4. Stay on topic.
5. Limit the use of profanity to the gameday threads.
6. No anime (h/t to the legends that helped this place grow)
Please use the comments section below to provide your feedback on the past, present, and future. Everything reasonable will be taken into consideration after being weighed against what we as a staff are attempting to do to grow the site even further in 2012.
Thank you in advance for your cordial participation and continued patronage.
0 recs | 493 comments
A message:
SRQman - January 23, 2012
all my alts be banned
PriceMultiCyYoungs - January 23, 2012
He's a pirate now
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
The site used to have it's own identity;
off-the-cuff, goofy, and laissez faire. Very similar to the team it covers. As a fan, I relate to the team because of these qualities. I would like to see this site once again become the envy of all the other baseball sites: continuing to provide great reporting and metrics while being hillariously obsurd. Kinda tough under the ‘stay on topic’ rule tho
Jaundicy - January 23, 2012 via mobile
absurd. I post less usually
Jaundicy - January 23, 2012 via mobile
This.
Regulation always impedes innovation and creativity, and in this case, humor. I hate how this site turned out with the crackdown on profanity and things like that. It’s why I rarely comment anymore. I miss the old days.
//hipster rant
Cory Alexander - January 23, 2012
Green
PriceMultiCyYoungs - January 23, 2012
This. Well done.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
profanity
personally, I think the decrease in profanity and negative exchanges is a positive change. It makes the site much more reader friendly.
I would point out that the site is still not very newbie friendly. If Andrew Friedman logged on with a funny name talked about some trade ideas and shot down others because of doabiiity he would be dismissed because he’s a newbie and couldn’t possibly know anything.
I think the frequency ad quality of front page posts is excellent. I’ve found myself coming here for Rays news more than the media outlets.
joaker5 - January 23, 2012
AF would not come in full retard with guns blazing with absurd trade proposals.
He would likely read more, post less until he understood the basic gist of the site. Then contribute positively.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Don't ever go full retard
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
Banned for hate speech
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
1st point = fuck you
2nd point = yay
3rd point = couldn’t agree more
davidsmarch - January 23, 2012
Pretty much what Jaundicy said above
Though I do understand the motivation and partially agree with some of the implementation. There was a ‘wild frontier’ attitude that made it difficult for new folks to jump in, much less feel at home. But there’s a continuum of response instead of a binary choice, and this place has swung to the other pole.
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
and more readers/posts/comments does not equal greater quality
Dumbing down may attract more users, but the purpose of this site was never to bring in the most users possible. It was a place for folks who weren’t "heater-level’ fans to hang out and talk about the Rays.
I mean, Fox News is the most watch “news” network. Nuff said.
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
Back to 5 recs for green. This 3 nonsense lets any hillbilly end up with a green post.
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
I see what you did there.
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
Abso-damn-lutely.
EminenceFront - January 23, 2012
The personal attacks
While the negative and personal attacks would occasionally drag a post down, they also served a purpose of self regulating. This would keep out some of the garbage you would find on other Rays sites and kept the heater-esque comments to a minimum. I think it helped to force people to read more and post less and I feel like the quality, or at the least entertainment, of the comments has declined as more uninformed feel like they can post with impunity.
ReyL - January 23, 2012
THIS.
It cultivated a better user.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Correct, IMO
Just read until enough has been learned to contribute, or face the wrath. I personally miss the OT stuff posted in between the metric talk. I used to belly laugh while reading threads, now it feels like a christian book club
Jaundicy - January 23, 2012
No religion bashing.
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
oh the irony...
cerebralstatic - January 23, 2012
I completely agree.
I did not post much on the front page because I knew my limitations due to my lack of time to really break stuff down like some users. Hence , I liked the OTTOTD because you could still feel part of the community and not feel like you had to be a SABR expert. I feel the comments here are becoming heater-esque or like Rays Index. Hi Cork.
Yes it is hard to break in here, but it keeps stupid out.
DeadeyeRR - January 23, 2012
It seems like I might be in the minority.
But I like the way things are now. I had been reading stuff here for almost two years but never commented because I was kind of turned off by some of the immature behavior in some of the comments.
I don’t want to read stuff about penises or come to a baseball site for humor. I come for information and dialogue.
There are a lot of people who will never be a part of this community because they are afraid of being ganged-up on if they express an opinion or have a dissenting point of view on a player. I’ve heard this from quite a few people. They love the site’s content and visit here regularly but will never comment or participate in the community because they just don’t feel comfortable for some reason.
Just my two cents. I’m happy to be here now and am having a good time interacting with other Rays’ fans.
John Gregg - January 23, 2012
I don't really like reading about penises either.
I agree that the ganging up went a little too far but to be quite honest many of those who did that are still here. I feel the mods needed to do a better job keeping the crap out of the front page and into the OTTOTD. It seemed like every Tom, Dick and Harry was allowed to mod and that was a problem.
DeadeyeRR - January 23, 2012
Agree with your last point. (*is a mod*)
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
I agree with this.
Although i did have to go offline for a few months due to some medical issues and when i came back to DRB I noticed familiar people were gone and some things had changed. I came here for the advanced baseball talk and not the off topic , so that doesn’t bother me.
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
Do you feel it interfered with the main page?
I think it was pretty well contained to the daily thread.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
No not at all. If you wanted to go of topic then you went to that thread.
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
So it did not affect your site enjoyment because you were able to avoid it.
This is part of y my point. That culture can exist with some tighter restrictions.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
Who would be charged with enforcing it?
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
Bring back Topper!
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
Topper would follow marching orders or not take the job
He wouldn’t abuse the power. Modding is a thankless job.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
RIP kericr
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
He generally did a decent job.
Of course there were some bans just for fun, but those receiving it just took it.
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
Bigger troll: Topper or Chip Kelly?
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
Mod abuse was out of control
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
I was speaking about TGN1 in particular, not the other yahoos.
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
No I've enjoyed the site since 2008
I also liked the hazing for rookies to this site and the jabs that members would make towards each other while in good fun.
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
Yes, this.
This bothers me more than no off-topic. On topic ribbing builds community and is being discouraged.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
+1
mr. maniac - January 23, 2012
Also while I don't necessarily share your views, I appreciate you chiming.
If others agree with John, please speak up.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
I think it's safe to say we all feel the same way
Though having the shenanigans contained in a separate thread is better than having it all over the site. No obligation to wander into all fanposts. People that complain about the OTTOTD have to be willing to admit that they went in there under their own accord.
But I can see your point of view. Healthy discourse is good.
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
Was penis talk really that prevalent?
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Only when P Brady showed up.
Zing!
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
I want to read about penises
PriceMultiCyYoungs - January 23, 2012
That's what initially drew me here.
A google search on penis chat. I’ve never even watched baseball. Seems boring.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
This seems like a good way to prove our point that we can co-exist
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
Hatfield really helping everyone out.
SRQman - January 23, 2012
It is his gift
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
I've always considered myself to be a walking, talking olive branch.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Then stay out of the Off Topic Threads. It's really a very simple solution.
firemangreg - January 23, 2012
I personally didn't feel like anything was wrong with having off topic discussion confined to its own thread.
That way, anyone who complains about the content has no one to complain to but theyself. Keep the weird stuff off the front page? Fine. Totally agree with that plan. But I still don’t think that having an OTTOTD hurt the Brand.
The change fractured the community for the worse, I feel. There might not be any change in the pageviews, but its impossible to say that more users are coming and posting because there’s no more OTTOTD. It’s still the same names in all the comment sections with a sprinkling of additional RIUNs. And that’s a “good” thing…
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
Good to see you kidpow
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
Never let go, "Heath".
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
just to add to that
I don’t care about this issue at all; I’m happy with the new rules and wouldn’t participate in any OTTOTD anyway. But many, many ‘professional’ blogs keep a single “open thread” for foolishness in recognition of the fact that there’s a community there and sometimes people like to let off steam.
So my proposal would be: have a single OTTOTD thread daily with no (or very little) moderation, and then keep the standard (new) policies in place everywhere else.
AndrewTorrez - January 23, 2012
That's how it worked for almost a full year though. The issue became when every user had the ability to ban each other. I'm guilty of it, I know.
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
okay, weird
I wouldn’t know; no one’s ever given me mod powers.
But it seems to me that those two things are unrelated: you could have an open thread with tons of penis/420 jokes/anime/whatever, and NOT give people mod powers, right?
AndrewTorrez - January 23, 2012
Easily. That was basically the 2008-2010 GDT
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
I disagree.
Alot of the OTTOTD crap sputtered into the on-topic threads and 10 or so posters would post solely in the on-topic sections to insult people.
mr. maniac - January 23, 2012
i do think the baseball commenting has been more prolific since the ottotd was removed.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
Yes, but the foolishness needed to be reigned in. Tighter rules could accomplish this
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
I think everyone was okay with that as long as the moderation policy was uniform.
On the day Collette posted the last GDT, several people pointed out that the OTT group had already complied once with a restriction (from the freewheeling front page to a specific FP) and would be willing to do so again instead of getting an outright exclusion from the site.
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
I agree with this but on-topic jabs are in bounds IMHO. FreeZo is the best at this and he needs shine.
PriceMultiCyYoungs - January 23, 2012
Slurp!
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
No penis talk.
PriceMultiCyYoungs - January 23, 2012
That was more like miming
Ben Tumbling - January 23, 2012
he doesnt jab. he quotes.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
Good point
It was one stop shopping for all things funny and Rays. There were some classic discussions in those threads, from high-speed rail to casey anthony, that had good informative flow. Having to open separate posts for each topic seems clostrophobic
Jaundicy - January 23, 2012 via mobile
I've been in favor of more Casey Anthony talk for a while now.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
I think there is plenty of room for middle ground
The rules are too strictly enforced IMO. There doesn’t need to be some of the previous fiith to have plenty of humor. The baseball (non-OT threads) have a long storied history of people having fun, poking good natured fun at one another. Without that, it becomes a pretty dry mess of rosterbation. Its important to note that the writing is fine. And people who enjoy the writing should read regardless of whether they use the commenting system or not. I read the site for a year before even reading comments. Good content will never chase readers away regardless of the activities of the commenting body. The site was always pretty good at policing itself and had very healthy double digit growth regardless of the comments.
Yet I completely understand why the leaders of the site wouldn’t want some of the filth associated with something they put hard work into. Find the center.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
Nice
DeadeyeRR - January 23, 2012
Awful commenting sections have never hurt newspaper sites.
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
with FZ and others on most of what they said.
we no longer live by the tagline.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
Rec for "we no longer live by the tagline."
firemangreg - January 23, 2012
The voices I really want to hear are the Non-OTTers
The benderb, Andrew TOrrez, Pionteks, or ever some lurkers.
1) Does ribbing bother you? Would it change your willingness to comment? Would it change whether you read the site?
2) Does a dedicated OTT thread diminish the site in any way? Would it change your willingness to read the FP or FP comment?
3) What about with tighter filth rules in place?
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
I love this new term "filth rules"
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
What would you call it?
Nudity, racist stuff (even if mocking racists). Those can be eliminated.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
The DaveH Problem
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
Nudity sure, but there was other sutff the site should want to disassociate itself from
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
Was the satirical racism a complaint by some?
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
Yes, I think people who stumble across the site don't get it
and thats understandable. There has been a legit negative view by some mainstreamers because of it. I can’t blame the staff who puts so much work into the site for being frustrated with a lack of respect due to it.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
Even at the site's most filthy, I never saw any other opinion of it than sterling. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places.
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
It does matter.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
I thought DRB had a rap for being rough around the edges but great content and discussion-wise
firemangreg - January 23, 2012
NEVER!
PriceMultiCyYoungs - January 23, 2012
The only problem I've seen that has changed for the better is that not everyone has mod powers
for a while i had no clue who was running this site. otherwise this was and still is the best place to follow the Rays and one of the best baseball blogs in existence. The OT , Hazing , Ribbing etc all had it’s place and it would be a welcome return to the site but it’s not gonna deter me from reading and posting here either way.
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
I use this site the comment section of this site in order to exchange or express ideas or views.
It is certainly not necessary for the moderators to protect me from abuse. I come here for " progressive statistical analysis and reasoned argument. As long as opposing views fall under that criteria, I can handle it. Personal attacks show ignorance on the abuser not the abused. I would ask that the moderators curb the censorship and let the readers handle the " retard shit" thier own way.
Moore Guerreri and Cheese - January 23, 2012
The Mods know what's best for you.
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
1. Tribbing does not bother me at all
Oh wait.
Ben Tumbling - January 23, 2012
I am a lurker?
I come here for the great Rays articles and the comments are just a bonus. I consider this the ONLY baseball site that has a good comment section/ fanbase. This is probably the only place I can have a good conversation without ignorant fans chiming in and “watering down” the dialog. Does the hazing keep those undesirables away? But when you compare the content in comments to those of an ESPN article, the difference is huge. Keep the humor, analytical viewpoints, and exile the idiots (its what makes these comments great).
MakeitRayn - January 23, 2012
answers
1) No; I took a bunch of it when I started posting more frequently. It’s part of the territory for any community. I don’t think a community becomes less exclusive based on language; there’s plenty of stuff that’s exclusive that isn’t vulgar.
2) No. I just don’t go to that thread.
3) I think the point of the rules is to make sure that the mainstream sources that are currently cooperating with DRB do not log on and view a whole bunch of profanity/stupidity/penises/inside jokes/whatever on the front page, think “Uh, this place is a stupid craphole” and decline to talk to anyone affiliated with the site. I think it’s really useful that DRBers can get press credentials, interview players, front office types, etc. — Gregg’s interviews, Collette’s interviews, that sort of stuff. We all benefit from that, and I think that’s the motivation for the new rules, right? I’m in favor of things that continue to allow DRB to bring inside information to us.
AndrewTorrez - January 23, 2012
Number three is BS....
no one holds the Times’ or TBO’s comment section against them when evaluating the work of those papers. Also, any press credentials those guys get is through the radio station or the paper, unless something has changed. Also, don’t forget that the Rays operating partner visits the site and has commented here.
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
i think part of the problem was the explicit names of the OTT threads, such as the one where our very own Dobber wished Jon Lester would get cancer or something of the sort
the topic titles are listed on the sidebar and appear on the homepage. part of a compromise could perhaps be taming their names to simply OTTOTD (date) or something of the sort.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
"our very own Dobber wished Jon Lester would get cancer or something of the sort"
I’m failing to see why this is an issue.
firemangreg - January 23, 2012
And then hiding them after the day is done like the GDT.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
I still stand by that
blackraven - January 23, 2012
This is factually correct
As well as the MLK day thread that we receive an inquiry on from a prospective business partner that nearly ended our deal over it. So, #3 was not BS
Jason Collette - January 23, 2012
I still have literally no idea what happened on MLK day.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
You should tell them that those are your commenters...
if this was the Times, I’m sure we could ask them how the fell about the hate speech that gets posted on their website everyday.
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
Ryan Gilliss going to bat for the good guys.
firemangreg - January 23, 2012
That point was raised
Jason Collette - January 23, 2012
non-ott
Don’t even know what OTT is… never seen it, not sure that I care about it, so if that’s where the kinky stuff happens then have at it.
Nothing wrong with ribbing or sarcasm. I think it’s hilarious when you use someone’s quote to contradict what they’ve just said. it’s genious. I think most of us appreciate that. The place where the line is drawn is the ubiquitous “I don’t agree with you so you are an idiot” posts. No one wants to be insulted for their opinions even if they aren’t very intelligent. Much better to ignore the post and let it die a non-responded to death than make the person feel like an idiot.
Filth rules are appreciated.
joaker5 - January 23, 2012
sigh
Genius
joaker5 - January 23, 2012
Coming from a sentimental standpoint, this is going to be a really fun, possibly watershed season for the club and to not be able to enjoy it with the full DRB crew will suck.
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
Keep the faith, this call all work itself out if there is open dialogue and cooperation.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
Your spelling and grammar lower my interest in this site.
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
(Please don't ban for personal attack)
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
Collette's Orbital Rocket Launcher is locking on target...
PlayOnWords - January 23, 2012
A potential addition
One thing that I, as a relatively new member, would like is a place to see at least relatively up to date stats for the players on the team as the season progresses. This should probably include a range of basic stats such as batting average and era, and also have some basic advanced metrics. This resource would help contextualize a lot of the discussions IMO.
Moorewinsplease - January 23, 2012
This isn't a bad idea.
Those stats are available on bref (baseball reference) but no reason why we need to go to a 3rd party site.
Maybe could include updated projections once a month or so?
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
fangraphs.com and baseball-reference.com. Can't beat their mixture of traditional and advanced stats along with filtering options
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
This
Fangraphs pretty much owns.
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
Fangraphs comments suck
The people don’t just the set up
MakeitRayn - January 23, 2012
I'm aware of both of these sites
and agree that they have a large array of stats of all kinds.
It would be nice, however, to have
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TBR/2011.shtml
something basic like this either as a tab that is easily accessible, or a direct link to this page
Moorewinsplease - January 23, 2012
Thats a great suggestion.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
Metrics yes,
But ba and era just don’t seem fit in with way the rays are run. Maybe posted as a bridge to adv metrics, but it might be easier to just completely forget about ba & era entirely, like vhs or 8 track
Jaundicy - January 23, 2012 via mobile
We have no idea if the Rays value ERA and BA
They both still have a place in baseball but their are better metrics available.
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
They prolly use all the #'s to some extent
but why use era & ba unless you are traiding with kenny williams?
As a fan, maybe it would be usefull to say “our defense must surely be rockin it because davis’s era is .420”. I could see it being a bridge
Jaundicy - January 23, 2012 via mobile
Metrics V Traditional Stats
This site is where I learned that there were more advanced ways of measuring player performance beyond BA, ERA, etc. (thankfully) and I’m very happy to now be a fanboy of SABR stats.
I do believe, however, that for the slightly more casual fan, having statistics page that show both allows for comparison that I at least feel valuable. I don’t see the harm of having the basics listed, and then showing the good stuff
Moorewinsplease - January 23, 2012
Ditto here
My saber knowledge was woeful before, and thanks to being a regular DRB reader, I’ve gotten a grasp on it which doesn’t begin to approach expertise, but at least a firmer understanding of how it works
swampchomp7 - January 23, 2012
no chance we should include crappy stats. that undermines the use of good ones. it perpetuates the notion that h/abs has any value.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
ok, my bad on the ba
(forced to do keg stand while singing DRB fight song)
Jaundicy - January 23, 2012 via mobile
lol
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
Content wise, I'd suggest an introduction series.
Covering stuff that might fall on the advanced side to new(ish) readers. For instance, projections—their purpose and creation—are a difficult concept to understand without some basic knowledge. Less esoteric would be the rudimentary “Contact is good, but here is why batting average alone doesn’t tell you too much about a player’s value,” and pieces like that. You could throw in some business-y pieces (options, service time, Super Two) as well, and later repackage these as a primer set for newer users who want to learn more about such and such. With four weeks until camp and most of the big news out of the way, this would help fill the content void, too.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
Can you use your robot power and search the interwebz for such a guide and publish it?
I think this idea was suggested awhile back and it got off to a start and then died.
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
We did a few saber 101 pieces (I believe this led to Slow putting together the library) but those pieces are two years old, so a lot of the "wisdom" is outdated.
I’m also not necessarily suggesting a saber stat introduction—you can never use an advanced stat and still do good analysis. Just some advanced concepts that go counterculture but require a good explanation.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
That sounds good to me
While I don’t need it personally anymore, I think that even something simple like a glossary that can be easily located if someone references a state that a reader doesn’t understand, etc. would be nice.
As an advanced stat based community, we should be trying to expand the number of people who don’t rely on traditional statistics, and make it easier for more fans to become enlightened.
Moorewinsplease - January 23, 2012
This is an excellent idea.
That was kind of what I was trying to touch on before. The more casual fan would feel more comfortable participating in discussions if there was more of a culture of teaching and learning instead of one of “I know more than you…you’re an idiot…and here’s why”.
I’m not saying that this was the case all the time, but there have been plenty of times I have seen folks belittle someone for not having an advanced knowledge of statistics.
John Gregg - January 23, 2012
Sure, but you have to understand that a lot of the attitude was to keep the trolls away.
I do regret if I snarked on anyone who had a serious intent to learn. That’s just how I learned to do things from other sites like LL. It worked for them so I figured it worked for me. If you can keep the trolls away without it, by all means, do so.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
I wasn't talking about you personally.
Perhaps I’m too sensitive to that kind of stuff. It’s hard to judge a person’s intent through the internet.
Your point about trolls is a good one. I’m not really sure how to deal with that sort of thing.
John Gregg - January 23, 2012
There is no denying that the site managed to grow astronomically through the Read More Post Less era
It might have rubbed some the wrong way, but the site growth demonstrates the effectiveness.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
The site grew because the fan base grew.
I don’t think what we did mattered much.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
To a degree, and the SBM deals with Yahoo and social media outlets helped too
The content was always outstanding and the baseball discussions/disagreements were a blast. If only attendance could grow the way DRB did :(
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
I wrote a post about Pineda.
And got more than 5 times as many views on it as anything I ever wrote about the Rays did. Rays blogs face the same equation the Rays team does (except that we aren’t locked in a zero sum game with PSA)
Whelk - January 23, 2012
If it were just that people liked Rancel and I then TPR would've drawn better than it did.
Nobody came to the site for us, it’s for the other things. That’s sort of the point.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
this.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
This is on the side bar
http://www.draysbay.com/2009/7/23/958850/the-new-users-guide-on-how-to-not
It can probably use some tweeking including a helpful informative section of suggested readings.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
Looking back, it actually is a very good guide, just could use some reading links.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
I might be supposed to stay out of this for now, but I'm a newbie, and not an authority figure, so I'm not.
I totally agree on this. I think we need to have some sort of easy reference explaining all of the popular “dumb” things people say that could be linked to, rather than people just being shouted down if they comment something silly.
A sabre site needs to be able and willing to always explain itself to the uninitiated, and I don’t think we do that very well. Even if the person making the original comment is just a troll, there are others reading it but not posting, to whom it sounds reasonable, and the angry pack of sabre nerds seems pretty unappealing to them.
Whelk - January 23, 2012
Well put.
You can’t have it both ways. There is no sense in folks complaining that the average fan doesn’t get sabermetrics and advanced analysis if there isn’t a willingness to teach others about it.
If somebody says something ridiculous it should be viewed as an opportunity to be a teacher and a leader and to help foster community.
I for one have learned an immense amount just in the past few weeks from some of the commenters here. So I am not saying that this doesn’t go on…only that imho it needs to happen more often. If it does, then I guarantee this community will flourish even more then it already has.
John Gregg - January 23, 2012
the issue is when dummies come in guns ablazing and dont want to learn.
im probably the biggest ass on here these days when it comes to this issue, but if people ever ask questions, need to be redirected, etc. ill be the first one to show the math behind war or why fip is better than era, etc. etc.it’s the internet, snarkiness and tomfoolery are the name of the game. i have to show people how to do things nicely all day in real life.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
I understand your point about being nice in real life.
As someone who worked in the Hospitality industry most of my life I can appreciate that. It gets old being nice to people all the time when they are wrong.
Still…DRays Bay for better or worse is a brand. A name that is recognized as a leader of info on the Rays. There is nothing wrong with wanting to get a better grip on how the “brand” is viewed by the larger community.
I don’t know why the off-topic threads were deleted and honestly I don’t think I’ve ever stepped foot in there.
I just think that there is a responsibility that comes with being a site that is based on “Progressive statistical analysis and reasoned argument.” Part of that, imho is teaching and helping folks better understand exactly what that is. Just my two cents.
John Gregg - January 23, 2012
When people want help they get linked to sabr library (or whatever)
No one is going to help with anything unless it’s incredibly specific and not somewhere else online.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
not really. we delve in to things all the time when people are confused or ask questions. the problem is when they state their opinions as facts.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
This must be a new thing, because that's not how it used to be.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
if people ask questions (like whats the difference b/w fip/xfip or the like) then i always address them as opposed to sending them to the sabelibrary.
pretty sure im not the only one.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
Someone who comes in guns blazing and doesn't want to learn.
Is just a person who hasn’t been convinced yet that they want to learn.
There are people (mostly older people, not used to internet culture) who are eager to talk about Rays baseball with me and in person, and who read things I forward them on here, but who are scared off by the comments (although they would never comment themselves) when they see people with their current viewpoint being abused.
Whelk - January 23, 2012
haha
The internet isn’t for everyone. And if they’re getting scared off by the current comments maybe you should just disable them altogether.
Life would be a whole lot less fun if no one ever disagreed with you. Which is where this site is most certainly headed.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
If you can't explain your "reasoned argument" to someone
then your reasoned argument isn’t worth shit.
Whelk - January 23, 2012
I haven't been posting, but thanks for your quality input.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
I mean the "you" in the inclusive sense.
More correctly but more awkwardly should have said “one.” I really didn’t intend that personally. Sorry.
Whelk - January 23, 2012
i think it was clear. he's just dobbering.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
Bwoodrum’s cartoons were freakin awesome. Actually got my 60yr old parents into metrics
Jaundicy - January 23, 2012 via mobile
HE'S ALIIIIIVE...
I was thinking a “Re-introduction” series could be a good way to get ready for the upcoming series and take a look at what stats we value here and why.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
Also content wise: quality control.
You cannot have a piece go up that misspells a prominent player’s name throughout. It takes 10 seconds to search for the player on Baseball-Reference and get it right. Typos and grammatical errors happen, they just shouldn’t happen with names.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
.
Founded in 2005, DRaysBay is home to, “Correctly spelled names” – R.J. Andersen
Imperialism32 - January 23, 2012
the lack of editing has been a problem for years. it's nothing malicious but it's grating to see mistakes throughout because someone wrote a game recap on a fangraphs chart they read at 1AM.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
We always wanted to hire an editor but it's hard without funds.
I’m not expecting great editing, just spell the names right.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
Until about a month or so ago, the New Yorker's blogs were neither fact checked nor edited.
And I doubt they stick with their new, more robust system long. The tablet versions of the New Yorker magazine are proofed by people making less than $20 an hour at 1:00 AM in the morning. Like it or not, typos are the future of journalism.
Whelk - January 23, 2012
I think there's a difference between typos and misspelling names.
One is harmless, the other can be disrespectful.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
before Latos was traded I can't believe how many different spellings of Mesoraco I saw.
I don’t think it’d be a big deal for a moderator/user who reads articles anyways to proof the content.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
Oh, I absolutely agree that it's a good thing to do, and that names are important
But there’s a reason printed media uses copy editors, and for better or worse, the web (which allows editing after the fact) doesn’t pay them.
Whelk - January 23, 2012
I don't think it would be terribly hard to find a person among the commenters who reads daily anyways to shoulder the responsibilities.
I know as a literate person that you sometimes gloss over mistakes in your own writing so you don’t see them even upon a self-proofread. it’s invaluable to have someone else proofing your work. i’m not talking about what the ‘norm’ is for web/blogs/etc, but you never know until you extend the opportunity.
I actually thought about emailing slow about this when I started posting, but I didn’t feel I was prolific enough of an entity to be considered. Now I have the opposite problem of having offended Jason too many times to the point where he can barely be civil in his emails to me.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
I think this is a fantastic idea.
I do proof my own stuff, but I would very gladly give over my work to someone (you?) who wanted to help. It’s rarely time sensitive, so I don’t have a problem with a longer process to posting.
Whelk - January 23, 2012
My wife is an editor.
She doesn’t have time to proofread my stuff let alone an entire site. But I personally am keenly aware of the fact that I need editing on about 90 percent of everything I write…because she is always telling me. LOL
John Gregg - January 23, 2012
I only edit Hayhurst tweets so I don't have time for any other editing.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Well done.
John Gregg - January 23, 2012
i don't know if i have the time anymore, but i'd be open to considering it.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
Community wise:
I don’t know what most of the recent fracas involves, but a friend from the site expressed concern to me about the religion and politics discussed in a recent comments section. We used to not allow that, but that rule was eased up in off-topic threads and seemingly done away with since. I can sort of understand politics with stadium talk, but is there any legitimate reason why religion should be a topic discussed on a baseball site?
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
Well, with players who make their faith a central part of their presentation
it seems natural that it comes up from time to time. It’s not really fair to expect fans not to talk about religion when the players do. And I say that as a religious person.
But yeah, it should at least be relevant to the topic at hand.
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
At the very least, I don't think the religious threads should get to the point where folks become uncomfortable.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
I'd amend this to say "reasonable people become uncomfortable"
Some folks are hyper sensitive, and this is the internet after all. But yeah, I agree with the sentiment.
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
Amen
ReyL - January 23, 2012
A lot of what politics has become is intertwined with religion
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
I think you mean values
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
No I mean religion
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
Imagine all the people
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
see south carloinians voting for gingrich over romney on the strength of religion.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
Politics and religion in one post?
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
Does this mean performance enhancing deity talk is off limits?
I think it’s pretty relevant
Sveet - January 23, 2012
Make it as much like 2008 as possible.
EminenceFront - January 23, 2012
Also...
Stick to a styling guide of some scale because some of these articles are awful graphically. (Looking at you Mr. Neg.)
EminenceFront - January 23, 2012
Maybe rglass could put together a style guide also.
With the weather warming up soon, I have several questions about this season’s shorts selection.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
check out my latest blog, rglassfashiontips.blogspot.com.
weather warming up, though? i hate you floridiots.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
BLACK ARMS
PriceMultiCyYoungs - January 23, 2012
I'm very disappointed that it's now a bannable offense to have a dissenting opinion.
firemangreg - January 23, 2012
More Bwoodrum.
Seriously, I miss that guy’s posts.
mr. maniac - January 23, 2012
+1
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
More Jacob, R.J., and PLK articles.
Seriously, you guys, I’m tired of not knowing the projected lefty/righty splits for Greg Norton.
EminenceFront - January 23, 2012
Done
Vs. LHP: .000/.000/.000
Vs. RHP: .000/.000/.000
Days on DL: 30
Jacob Larsen - January 24, 2012
I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the Rays tank.
That was a brilliant way to foster baseball dialogue during the dark, dreary winter months.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
A few more non-saber pieces from time to time
The statistical analysis on the site is great, and there are always plenty of good articles breaking things down from a saber perspective which have a lot of thought put into them and require the reader to think as well. Adding some pieces that are just fun to read and require no real thinking would be enjoyable too.
Sometimes I just want to watch Zoolander, if you get what I mean. I used to love Chalk’s Bugs and Cranks articles about the Devil Rays, and I wouldn’t mind having someone write a short piece once a month or so about something funny that happened at the Trop, a Q&A with our favorite beer men about the funny stories they have, or a piece about the best pranks pulled in Spring Training. I realize there are other sites for this kind of stuff but why not improve this one by adding a limited amount of alternative content that provides a quick reality break. I’m not saying replace any of the current content, just add a little something different.
Devil Ray - January 23, 2012
.
EminenceFront - January 23, 2012
Is this your roundabout way of saying you want a players wives' section?
Ben Tumbling - January 23, 2012
there are other sites for that
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
This site found a niche,
and the niche isn’t the players personal lives.
MakeitRayn - January 23, 2012
It's penis talk, obviously
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
Less awful community management.
I kind of understand why you guys did what you did. On topic discussions would occasionally be invaded by humorous content, off-topic threads were ruining site cred, and some people felt pretty small. So instead of communicating your problems as an adult would, perhaps saying “maybe tone it down a little” and let people police themselves you just went and purged the most active part of your community. Then de-friended them, unfollowed them, and acted like the all around professionals you like to believe you are.
Now you think to ask “Gee guys, what do you think?”. Maybe ask first next time.
If you really want some advice, get rid of Cason. He clearly doesn’t know how to handle a community. Feelings hurt, better exterminate them all!!!
I’m really disappointed I won’t be able to post in GDTs this year under your new rules and regulations. It’s a shame, I really enjoyed interacting with some of you.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
0% chance this lasts 30 minutes on here.
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
I'm sure some of that is sarcastic.
Maybe
blackraven - January 23, 2012
Also, real talk
I’m disappointed in Slow. Dude could have sent and email or something. Instead he’s like “shows over, get out”.
So many better ways to handle it. Disappointing.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
Just the Man kowtowing to JoeRaysFan.
Alienating your niche for greater site hits and ad revenue.
EminenceFront - January 23, 2012
Isn't there room for compromise between the OTTODers and the management?
A lot of those guys commented for a long time, and I considered a few my favorite users. I understand why the threads were done away, and some reasons appeared valid. I just think there has to be some resolution where they can feel comfortable returning, and management can feel comfortable with them returning.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
Is there a way to immediately archive or whatever an OTTOTD?
Kind of like the Gameday Threads are done. This would allow all the horrible things that occur in the OTTOTD to take place while not appearing anywhere on the front page. Or is that too “boys club”.
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
You can hide the thread, but as far as I know there was never a way to set that up automatically.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
Make them FanShots.
Nobody reads those.
EminenceFront - January 23, 2012
If they would have handled it differently I think we'd be in a different position right now.
But they just turned the lights off and assumed we’d stay.
I’m just assuming they wanted us to stay. Personally I don’t think they said “if they go, so be it.”
blackraven - January 23, 2012
Ugh, take out the don't.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
I see the time away hasn't enhanced your typing/communication skills.
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
What happened to the happy-go-lucky Buc Wild?
You sad Chip isn’t coming? I am.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
I'm using veiled personal attacks disguised in friendly banter to avoid the banhammer.
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
But we're buddies. Go pick n RJ or something.
He doesn’t have feelings to hurt.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
We've had months for fingerpointing.
If there’s a middle ground to be had, I would encourage both parties to work on finding it and let bygones be bygones.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
When that middle ground presents itself I may be interested in seeing it.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
ottotd.com in the friends of the site bar?
Whelk - January 23, 2012
that's a horrible idea
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
Agreed.
firemangreg - January 23, 2012
Why? I've got several penis gifs awaiting everyone's arrival.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
That isn't a middle ground.
But it is where I will be enjoying my game time posting. Thanks for the plug, I guess?
blackraven - January 23, 2012
no..there's not enough actual content there.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
I'm not in a position to offer things.
But both sides should put together a list of what they’d want—or don’t want—and work from there. There’s too much anger involved here. That has to be put aside first.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
The Voice of Reason is BACK!
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Part of that has to come from your side as well Dobbs
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
the problem is anytime someone raises a complaint with collette he posts his "6 rules of the site" states that they are black and white and proceeds to hide all discussion that may even approach violating them.
the whitewash really turns me off of contributing/suggesting more, i think it’s absurd that so much content is hidden.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
and i mention this because he doesn't seem willing to budge on his policy, so it does not make him seem amenable to compromise.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
I'm not fluent on all the happenings around here nowadays, so forgive any ignorance I show
But this thread does show some willingness to adjust and compromise on his/their part, no?
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
the existence of it, of course. i'm glad it came to a head and we have this at least.
but we won’t know if it means anything at all until we see the response of “the big 4” of Jason, Steve, Erik, and Brad.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
Fair enough.
I would caution that this has to go both ways in order for it to work.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
i haven't taken an extreme stance at any time since the exodus, but I have represented some of the opinions of those shunned and discarded.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
I would suggest a chat between site leaders and Toppah. He's our Oblammer
PriceMultiCyYoungs - January 23, 2012
Or, we go to arbitration.
I would vote for FZ or you to oversee that process.
PriceMultiCyYoungs - January 23, 2012
i don't know if this is a joke or not
but it’s really not a bad idea
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
Some form of arby would be an awesome way to settle this dispute.
And would go down in internet lore for all eternity.
Maybe resident attorney Reasonable Doubt could…. oh, wait.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
I would rather these folks just settle it on their own.
As a reader, both add value to the experience. I hope both sides can label the thread banning as an action with good intentions, even if the execution led to some miscalculated and regrettable effects.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
something something paved with good intentions
blackraven - January 23, 2012
lol
benderbrodriguez - January 23, 2012
i just want whatever to happen that brings rj back.
and maybe even sandy back for hours at a time before he gets banned again.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
Bingo bango
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
Two cents' worth from a lurker (for several years)
and infrequent poster. (I’m a Rockies’ fan & hang out at Purple Row mostly, but check this site daily because the Rays are my favorite AL team.)
I like the changes — the profanity and nudity got to a point where they detracted from the site’s credibility. I often suggest friends or relatives check out particular posts on P.R., but would have never suggested my daughter (a big baseball fan) or my wife go looking on Drays Bay. There were simply too many offensive things. I coudn’t tell the tongue-in-cheek racism/sexism from actual racism/sexism, and that really offended me.
I’m no prude, and enjoy double-entendre jokes & occasional off-topic pictures or clips that illustrate a point. But some posters here were being crude just for the sake of being crude, and that detracted from the main purpose: a good baseball blog about a good baseball team.
I’ve learned a lot about the Rays from this site and really appreciate the detailed knowledge of the mods & many posters. Go Rays.
maris61 - January 23, 2012
Was there every nudity in front page posts?
Did I miss this somehow?
blackraven - January 23, 2012
Most of the complaints seem to stem from hard fast rules (no nudity, no racism etc) being violated and us collectively not doing antyhing.
Those that violated those particular rules were banned but unbanned 24 hours later. Perhaps a more firm stance and active self policing would have produced different results.
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
Any time anything really bad was posted it was gone within minutes.
I mean christ, no one has a better response time than we had when it came to deleting offensive content. And you’re right, it was consistently the same people (daveh33) but the mentality was “just unban him” and that was ok with slow et al.
They never said anything.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
Not true
he was perma banned at one point but then set free by someone. i doubt it was Slow.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
#FREEDAVEH
Also, I don’t remember any nudity that wasn’t gone after about 30 seconds.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
I perma banned him.
And slow didn’t speak up, he should have.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
Very fair
and bonus points for Go Rays.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
i think a lot of that was restricted to GDT where things kind of get out of control, but that's related to the nature of emotional response to the sport.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
Yes, it was mostly GDT where I saw it
maris61 - January 23, 2012
i'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying there's a reason it happens.
the same reason people type in all caps when a stupid error is made or a glorious home run is hit.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
Three cheers.
You managed to say in one post what I have been trying to express in many. In short…there are many times when the site has not been “family friendly” It’s a big miss to exclude that part of the Rays’ online community.
Just as the Rays themselves have a certain standard for the way that the players are to conduct themselves on and off the field, I feel that the same should apply to those who want to discuss the team in a public forum like DRaysBay.
I personally can handle sexism/racism and locker room talk, but there are many that can’t and shouldn’t have to.
John Gregg - January 23, 2012
Can't please everyone.
And the typical person who is offended by internet hijinks isn’t bringing a lot of advanced analysis to the table.
I’m sure there are exceptions, but let’s be honest here.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
would you be willing to cite some of the things that were not family friendly?
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
Here is one from this weekend.
“if you put a giant penis on the front page i’m sure that would generate comments too
paging daveh”
“Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again”
John Gregg - January 23, 2012
There are others
…but honestly I’m not going to waste my time looking for them. Anyone who reads this site with regularity knows what I am talking about. Sure…the stuff gets deleted…but it shouldn’t be posted in the first place.
Honestly…I’m really having a hard time understanding why some find the “Six Golden Rules” so oppressive and unfair.
Any website or brand on the internet has rules of conduct for posting. This is not a foreign concept or unreasonable request.
If I’m missing something please clue me in, because the rules seem to be fair and reasonable to me. I know I’m new here and I don’t want to rock the boat…but come on what is so unreasonable about these? Please somebody tell me how these rules are not fair or reasonable, because I honestly don’t get it.
1. No personal attacks.
2. No slurs.
3. Keep an open mind, and use logic in arguments.
4. Stay on topic.
5. Limit the use of profanity to the gameday threads.
6. No anime (h/t to the legends that helped this place grow)
John Gregg - January 23, 2012
I think the one that has brought about this whole thing is number four
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
And interpretation of #1
Busting chops isn’t really an attack. A key to successful moderating is playing in the grey field
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
#3 is one i've had a strong issue with.
sometimes it feels like arguing with a wall here. The Betemit discussion, Jason wouldn’t (and still hasn’t) responded to a few of my points about the intrinsic characteristics of a utility player, and so I got frustrated. Yes I was wrong in how I responded, but if I was in violation of rule 1 (though I tried to limit my attacks to his argument and not to him personally), then he was absolutely in violation of rule 3.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
Interpretations of #1 and #4 are the problems.
Resolve those and we’re back in business.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
That seems like a legitimate gripe.
Perhaps there just needs to be a more clearly defined definition of “on topic”.
John Gregg - January 23, 2012
We need more rules
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
And more realism in place of idealism.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
It's silly to think that the commentariat is somehow a reflection...
or exemplary of the thoughts and ideas of Steve or Jason. This stuff has been going on for years and hasn’t stopped you or Tommy or even Steve and Jason from getting noticed by and doing work for more high profile media outlets.
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
I think it's reasonable to ask for the content to be toned down.
But I also never wanted 13-year-olds reading the site, so I’m not the best judge.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
A lot, if not most, of the site deals with things that are probably beyond the comprehension...
of any child young enough to be offended.
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
I wasn't much older than 13 when I started reading DRB
benderbrodriguez - January 23, 2012
I wasn't using the age of 13
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
My bad, should've responded to RJ
benderbrodriguez - January 23, 2012
Don't take the age literally, I meant kids.
Whoever these people are that take offense to a random curse word now and again but still manage to enjoy television, movies, music, and other literature.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
Thats the age of a certain rite of passage into manhood
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
Weren't you 13 when you started writing here?
ReyL - January 23, 2012
Older than that, and I still had no business doing so.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
this is true
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
If they can handle advanced stats, they can handle a dirty word.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Honestly
This is the internet. People are going to post horrible stuff. It’s some strange thing with anonymity. If they’re banned for it, they gone. Negative reinforcement does work.
Baiting people into posting furries or anime was literally the best part of the GDT.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
i was making a point, and it was hidden anyways, which is proof that the system works.
there is nothing explicit about what i said, and i don’t think the word ‘penis’ counts as profanity. it may come off as crass, but that post was in accordance with the guidelines.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
Ok fair enough.
But the second part was from your signature….which is posted on this site every time you post. It doesn’t bother me…but could you see how it might be intimidating or inappropriate for a kid to read?
John Gregg - January 23, 2012
it's a quote, and i thought it was so absurdly awful that it was comical. if a mod asked me to remove it i would.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
I know.
I’m not trying to give you a hard time. My point is merely that one doesn’t have to search very hard to find content on this site that is not “family friendly”.
John Gregg - January 23, 2012
I just don't think "family friendly" needs to be taken to extremes.
I mean… we don’t have to kid-proof EVERYTHING.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
It's not supposed to be Disney's DRB
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
And I'm not saying it's currently being taken to extremes.
But a data-driven baseball site typically isn’t attracting kids or nuns (other than my daughter who is one of those and will be the other).
Like the radio. I really like to hear curse words on the radio. I don’t know why, but I’m an adult and I really like to hear the f-word. A lot. So I buy SiriusXM.
It upsets me that I can’t hear personalities on terrestrial radio talk like adults just so kids hear it.
I am also upset that Alcatraz had to be kid-proofed and I will never get to see those glorious pupperz.
Real talk.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
*so kids don't hear it
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Right, F/X and Comedy Central both have profanity
It just shouldn’t be excessive or cruel. I’ve probably cursed <10 times in 4 years on this site
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
but this is not a blog for families, and i have never seen that as part of the mission statement anywhere.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
Someone's signature that is in quotes is intimidating?
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
To be fair though, telling someone to stay in their "ass cave" is hilarious.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
WHAT NUDITY?
That’s always been a ban and immediate deletion of the post.
firemangreg - January 23, 2012
Further, you are a prude.
Go Rays.
firemangreg - January 23, 2012
No personal attacks
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
It's a fact, Jack (Brucie)
firemangreg - January 23, 2012
But what about condoning marijuana usage?
mrichardkent - January 23, 2012
What about it?
PriceMultiCyYoungs - January 23, 2012
Any truth to the rumors that Maddon is the Bucs new head coach?
I mean, they are kinda getting desperate at this point…
witty - January 23, 2012
so witty
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
so"witty" would have been more appropriate
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
I thought you were dead
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
just jobless
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
I don't understand why profanity is excusable in GDT's but not in OTT's.
GDT’s actually make the front page, while OTT’s are hidden on the sidebar. If anything it seems new users would be more inclined to read offensive comments in a GDT than an OTT.
Lookout Landing is by far one of the greatest blogs on SBN, and Jeff Sullivan posts profanity on the front page all the time. I’m not even interested in the Mariners, I just read the site because his interesting writing.
There was nothing wrong with the site before the shut down of OTT’s. I was just like any other newbie poster, but I got the memo. Read long enough to understand the community before you post, and if you can’t do that then you are much more fit for commenting on The Heater.
I posted on a different account at the beginning of the 09 season, got a little backlash for not understanding the statistical viewpoint of the site, then backed off to understand it a little more. Management may not like it, but it’s true. If DRB wants to attract more visitors and new users with less intellectual comments, then so be it, that’ll just make it like every other Rays site out there if you disregard the saber analysis, which even that content has been hitting a low.
In short; read before you post, understand the community, and you’ll be fine. Management may not like it, but that’s essentially what you’re going to have to do if you want your site to be in a different league than The Heater and Rays Index. I used to love DRB, and I can’t stand to see it spiral down like those other garbage Rays sites.
multiple sources - January 23, 2012
profanity was allowed in the OTTOTD's
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
I know, but why not direct profanity to both the OTT's and the GDT's in the guidelines
Instead of directing use of the oh so immature profanity to the GDT’s, which actually appear on the front page where users are inclined to read more stories comments, as opposed to a thread that you only see on a sidebar.
multiple sources - January 23, 2012
THIS. EVERYONE IMPORTANT PLEASE READ THIS.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
I consider myself a newbie here,but I agree with this.
I waited about a year or so before I said “explicit” it and started joining in on the conversations, in the comments. The amount of intellectual capital that floats around there bests every other community I have experienced. If an increase of less educated fans became more pronounce, I believe they would water down the conversation instead of enhancing it.
MakeitRayn - January 23, 2012
Example 1: Batting Average Funpost
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
for heaven's sake, dont denigrate a crappy fanpost.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
Jason has to be in the midst of a full on anxiety attack right now having to wait to respond.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
I'm pretty sure he is flying today anyways.
John Gregg - January 23, 2012
hahahahahahah
blackraven - January 23, 2012
You know what you want to say.
firemangreg - January 23, 2012
I also don't want to be banned
But we all know I’m saying it in spirit.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
Steve or Jason should be here taking part in this...
and some of the other posts probably shouldn’t have gone up today. They missed the boat on that.
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
It's almost pointless without interaction from them.
SRQman - January 23, 2012
Jason should have saved this for a day when he wasn't travelling...
or made sure that Steve was going to be here to participate.
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
I think they said they'll both reply to this later, but they want to be hands off for a bit right now
benderbrodriguez - January 23, 2012
Yep. I'm looking forward to later.
If this is handled properly when they chime in, this could be a really good thing.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
yes this
I’m okay with them allowing the community discussion to take place without ‘guiding’ it. It’s the best way to get a feel for how the community really feels.
It will alsomake the response later much more well thought out (I hope).
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
They just know that if they leave this up long enough, it will devolve into penis chat and they can say "told ya so!"
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Just my opinion but and "Airing of Grievances" should have all involved parties present
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
It's more of a "let everyone get their thoughts out" and then we'll respond
That way things can be more tempered
benderbrodriguez - January 23, 2012
Agreed.
firemangreg - January 23, 2012
When do we move on to Feats of Strength?
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
Tomorrow.
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
H/T to Collette for an incredible thread title, I LOLed
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
i think he said they'd read/respond in the evening.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
No serious concerns other than not welcoming new posters very well,
but I think even that has improved ever since the OTTOTD guys left, and now the site is actually mostly about baseball.
sc_monsta1015 - January 23, 2012
As a writer/moderator on this site, here's my take on everything
1) I’ve always come to DRaysBay for the baseball, first and foremost. The content and discussion is king.
2) Despite the above, I’ve also really enjoyed the banter and personalities that have developed. DRB is a lot of fun to be on
3) As a moderator, I only personally ban people for doing things that are clearly crossing the line (i.e. posting anime, porn, “would of”). I don’t hide content unless I think it’s highly offensive to a significant portion of the viewership. I know that this is much more lax than most of the others, but I view myself more as a contributor than a policeman on this site, and I know that that’s not everyone’s role.
4) I personally think the hiding of posts that aren’t offensive is somewhat unnecessary, and that staying on topic isn’t a 100% rule. It’s more a matter of, respond and generate discussion to the writer’s work, they put a lot of time into it. For things like fanshots etc., staying on topic is even less important.
benderbrodriguez - January 23, 2012
I like this.
When you are attracting the personality type who enjoys this game on the level that we do, some banter is going to take place.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Yes , this.
Baseball people rarely agree with everything and blanket statements are nearly impossible.Arguing baseball is a GOOD thing.
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
If you can't ignore someone saying something in the comments section of a blog...
You don’t belong on the internet.
EminenceFront - January 23, 2012
I agree with this. The "would of" got the rec, though
sc_monsta1015 - January 23, 2012
this. especially number4.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
absolutely.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
Yeah, I have a problem with the mods around here, let's see how many people care.
Since when do typos and using wrong terms lead to a ban? Are we in junior high? We get punished for how we spell?
Let the trolls post but if a guy doesn’t say “would have” BAN HIM!
joeybw - January 23, 2012
Using grammar correctly is a reflection on yourself and a service to those who may read your comments.
If you can’t be bothered to fix a simple error, then why should anyone read your comments?
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
this
sc_monsta1015 - January 23, 2012
Right
I mean, what if AF stopped by? We don’t want people thinking badly of the site.
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
You are absolutely right about this.
but should people be banned for it?
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
Was he banned or warned?
The latter is just a way to deliver a message, but looks like a ban if you don’t know any better.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
Yeah , I'm starting to see that this was a special case.
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
It was a ban.
joeybw - January 23, 2012
It was a ban, you're right.
For about five minutes, although you had two warnings before that asked you to pay attention to that same mistake. Probably thought you were trolling.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
If they consistently make the same mistake?
Absolutely.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
I'm seeing that this was a special case.
to do the same things over and over again , even after being corrected gets old for sure.
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
I think that's what makes it hilarious
but then, I’m old
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
I think it's hilarious also.
If he want’s to look like an idiot then more power to him.
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
WANT IS
bravo
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
I feel the same way about unnecessary punctuation usage
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
That's what makes it good.
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
Does this really happen?
If so , then i agree 100%
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
Context.
This is a special case.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Don't feel bad, kid, anybody else would of goten banned for bad gramer
sc_monsta1015 - January 23, 2012
BA-ZING!
mattc286 - January 23, 2012
Joey,
You KEEP DOING IT. It wasn’t initially banworthy, but after weeks and weeks of correction, you KEPT DOING IT.
And now one would have to think you’re doing it on purpose.
So if you are banned for it you will either
1. Stop doing it on purpose.
or
2. Stop doing it and think for 1 extra second before you click post.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
I didn't do it on purpose
I did it because I wrote something and just clicked post. I didn’t care how it read because for gods sake, its the internet. If I am going to get banned every time I fail my spelling test, congrats, you finally got rid of me.
joeybw - January 23, 2012
Joey , I don't think anyone want's to get rid of you.
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
#FREEJOEYBW
SRQman - January 23, 2012
my new favorite poster
Hey, it’s the offseason, shouldn’t we rank the posters, and have a vote? Who’s in?
sc_monsta1015 - January 23, 2012
Oh, look.
Something else OTTOTD used to do.
#Gilly
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
I should of known.
sc_monsta1015 - January 23, 2012
If only someone would have thought of this before
/Tier 2
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
Tiers are an OTTOTD thing
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
You are so clearly wrong in this.
DeadeyeRR - January 23, 2012
But no one will read what you have to say if you keep starting it with the same grammatical error.
It puts all the focus on that.
I would think you would prefer everyone to focus on your thought, instead of your error.
It’s just crossing into trolling territory at this point.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
No one will read it anyway
joeybw posted it.
joeybw - January 23, 2012
classic chicken-and-egg scenario
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
It really is.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Joey has been thriving since the majority of the people who remember the Rocco disease incident don't post anymore.
If only it weren’t for the “would of” thing.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
You have to be kidding me
I never stopped hearing about that Rocco thing, this would have crap is just added on and I get it worse because of the “Rocco Thing”
joeybw - January 23, 2012
of to be
(it never gets old)
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
The Rocco thing was quite the transgression though.
I mean… oh man.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
I don't know what the Rocco thing is. I assure you the "would have" situation would have upset me equally coming from ANY poster on this site
benderbrodriguez - January 23, 2012
I would of
SRQman - January 23, 2012
BOOM
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
I read your posts Joey.
You are very passionate about this team.
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
I legitimately thought you were trolling, given that it's been pointed out that the expression "would/should/could of" is meaningless over 20 times (not exaggerating), and that you'd been warned twice
benderbrodriguez - January 23, 2012
If you'll recall the Rocco incident, it makes it even more likely that he is trolling.
His trolls are the most elaborate things ever.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
I don't recall the Rocco incident in fact
benderbrodriguez - January 23, 2012
Perhaps a new feature of the site could be a history section
since I don’t know what the rocco incident is either
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
Oh, let me share it.
Others will be able to help way more.
Basically he pretended to get offended at Rocco “tired” jokes because he told an elaborate story about how he has the same disease.
Went with it for quit some time (unless I’m mistaken), then it was revealed that it wasn’t true.
Thus the “Joey is tired”, “go to bed, Joey”, “zzzzz” jokes.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
SRQ, help?
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Basically that.
SRQman - January 23, 2012
DRaysBay is the home of Progressive Statistical Analysis and Lying
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
Okay, that's funny
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
This is the kind of stuff we would miss if we had to stay completely on topic.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
It has made it literally impossible to ever take anything he says seriously.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
id say that would of been his constant lineup predictions
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
What would we do without daily updates of his projected lineups????
blackraven - January 23, 2012
I still can't get over your sig
benderbrodriguez - January 23, 2012
I must be a horrendous person, because I laugh every single time.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Yeah, I'm a troll
I think I will go find a message board that doesn’t grade your spelling and ban you if you fail. Enjoy sternfan and the rest of them. The constant complaints from them aren’t nearly as bad!
joeybw - January 23, 2012
Stop.
You know what you’re doing when you somehow squeeze “would of/could of” into every other post.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Joey.
Please take a nap and get some rest and come back when you are more level headed. You don’t want to do something you would of regretted later right?
SRQman - January 23, 2012
I'm pretty sure he was trolling, just admit it, Joey,
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
you say that you can't help it but you clearly acknowledge what you do wrong and refuse to change. that's your own damn fault.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
Maybe it's not his fault.
I know that since i had a stroke that my brain doesn’t always process things like it should.
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
I see what you did there.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Nah seriously
It’s why i wasn’t around during the playoffs
Peter Piontek - January 23, 2012
and some people are just dumb
and that’s meant as a defense, not an insult
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
You spell have O-F, thats not really close, Joey.
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
hahahaha
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
This entire idea is pointless unless Slow/Cason gets involved
blackraven - January 23, 2012
I agree...
It’s also buried way down the page now. Probably should have unbanned some of the guys who are still banned if they wanted to get true input.
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
Rumor has it that very thing may be happening.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
WHERE IS STYLEZ MCKOOLAID!?!?!?!?
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
Texting me from Cason's plane.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
He's packing his bags as we speak.
firemangreg - January 23, 2012
lol
benderbrodriguez - January 23, 2012
What happened to him? Does he still post?
blackraven - January 23, 2012
"multiple sources"
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
meant to add "?"
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
wtbudlight
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
tis my hope that this is a first step, not a final whitewash
but then, i’m a cock-eyed optimist
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
I hope so.
Because I hope that this would of accomplished something.
SRQman - January 23, 2012
ya cut
Imperialism32 - January 23, 2012
Thank goodness I turned my monitor away
with a word like “c***” on the screen!
SRQman - January 23, 2012
No penis talk
Buc Wild - January 23, 2012
come on
that was right down the dickhole
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
If an Erotic Christian Teen Sci-Fi Writer can handle a dick joke, who can't?
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
(btw, the new book, Splitting Adam, is out)
(get it at amazon, ibookstore or barnes & noble)
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
((also, follow me on twitter))
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
(I, and 16 others, do)
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Just followed him! Hope he follows back!
SRQman - January 23, 2012
I thought it was 17 others
dammit, did I lose a stripper????
nomoredevil - January 23, 2012
One porn-bot was removed apparently.
Literally half of mine are porn-bots.
(Follow me, guys!)
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
btw, where else do you advertise your epublications?
witty - January 24, 2012
Rick Santorum
witty - January 24, 2012
Oh Rick Santorum can handle a dick, joke.
Sandy Kazmir - January 24, 2012
I trust that they will.
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
Well their track record for discussing issues they have isn't exactly promising.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
They're responding later on, and I've been assured they're taking things suggested under consideration.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
Well I look forward to their input.
Maybe there is a middle ground to be had. Time will tell.
blackraven - January 23, 2012
Again, they don't post a thread like this without genuine interest in approving the experience.
If this isn’t solved by the start of camp I would be disappointed.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
"approving the experience"
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
Oops.
R.J. Anderson - January 23, 2012
They're reading
Imperialism32 - January 23, 2012
All in good time
I do believe that this isn’t like Dwight’s complaints to Toby about Jim that get put in a “special file” in corporate
benderbrodriguez - January 23, 2012
Involvement is coming
We’ve purposely stayed away from commenting so people could speak their mind. Your feedback has been collected and is being processed. Steve will be responding in full for the entire site later today.
Anyone who has received a ban from me over the last few months has been granted clemency as a fresh start. The statement later today should help clarify the policies moving forward and how they will be monitored by others. I’m taking a more hand-on role with content & site PR and taking hand off monitoring responsibilities for awhile.
Jason Collette - January 23, 2012
This is all a futile exercise without Sandy Hellicksonstine's input
DeadeyeRR - January 23, 2012
lol
benderbrodriguez - January 23, 2012
I think most people have said what needs to be said. When can we start talking about my new post looking at the projected lineup using regressed platoon splits?
http://theraysway.com/articles/projecting-the-rays-2012-lineup
Sandy Kazmir - January 23, 2012
this is the most-Sandy Sandy post
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
needs more anger and cursing. does have the right amount of self-promotion, though.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
Needs more softball.
mattc286 - January 23, 2012
where's that kericr guidelines post.....
where is kericr?
Jason Collette - January 23, 2012
Still banned I think?
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
AWWWWWWWWW YEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
firemangreg - January 23, 2012
I will only be using this site to further my own agenda, just like everyone else.
Sandy Kazmir - January 23, 2012
fanshot it plz
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
No
Sandy Kazmir - January 23, 2012
fine. no discussion then.
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
If you feel passionately you can comment on the site, tweet me, or just mumble something here
P.S. I missed you when can we have some alone time?
Sandy Kazmir - January 23, 2012
fanshotted it for you. see you there (blows a kiss).
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
I hate you.
I’ve been slowly, lazily working on something about Pena and splits that was going to spend time referencing and explaining page 181 of The Book. For what it’s worth, I don’t just copy whatever you say a week later.
Whelk - January 23, 2012
Well I didn't really go into detail about the "magic" of regression, so there's certainly a ton of room there to delve into that aspect and relate it to the layman
I thought about instead of using career numbers use the last four or whatever and weight them so that you can factor in some of the recency, but ended up just going with career numbers. It would probably move things around the projection a bit differently, though I don’t know how much that adds. This stuff fascinates me so please feel free to piggyback off the concept as long as you feel that you’re adding value.
Sandy Kazmir - January 23, 2012
Yeah, it is interesting.
The biggest question I’ve been wrestling with about Pena is how little or how much weight to give to recency. His problems are obviously a lot more recent than four years, and my temptation is to call it all noise, and regress as usual, but I’m having trouble proving that’s the right thing to do.
I’d love to know if weighting the last four years or so, assuming they played full years, improves accuracy, though.
Whelk - January 23, 2012
that was one thing that i thought might be illustrative
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
Ok so if we weight them 1:2:3:4 I get a weighted overall wOBA of .349, 747 PA against LHP at a weight wOBA of .296
1618 PA against righties with a weighted wOBA of .370. At the same forecast of an overall .360 wOBA we see an expected against lefties of .326 and against righties of .376 where I had .329 and .373 so the recency shows a wider split of around .003 points of wOBA. Not sure that’s a ton of a value add over just using the career numbers.
Sandy Kazmir - January 23, 2012
The band is back together *wipes away tear*
RJ, POW, SK-rglass PDA all in one day
FreeZorilla - January 23, 2012
Never lasts long so savor the flavor, kid
Sandy Kazmir - January 23, 2012
We just need PLK now
benderbrodriguez - January 23, 2012
he's probably a senator by now.
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
and thats a pretty heavy weighting
rglass44 - January 23, 2012
And here you go
http://www.draysbay.com/2012/1/23/2728053/re-do-on-drb-moderation-policy
Jason Collette - January 23, 2012
Hey guys
Thanks a bunch for all the comments and feedback….this has been good to see and helpful for me. I’ve let a lot slip more than I should have in recent months, and I’m sorry that our modding ended up being so extreme for many of you.
I’ve written out a more full response to all this, so please take some time to go through it at some point…I got a lot of feedback on it already, and I’m hoping/thinking it’s fair. But please, let me know.
Steve Slowinski - January 23, 2012
To me it's very simple
If you come here just to read baseball related content, this does not affect you in any way.
If you come here to comment but don’t enjoy the “inside jokes”, stay out of the OTTOTD
If you come here to do both of the above and like to partake in shenanigans, see you in the OTTOTD.
BJ the Bossman - January 23, 2012
I wish I could've posted this earlier this morning, but I had to wait to be unbanned because Mr. Collette refused to do it himself.
I was banned last night for trying to have a discussion of a similar sort to this, and FreeZo brought up the idea of having this thread, and it no longer exists or is hidden or whatever.
Professionalism, particularly on Mr. Collette’s part, is lacking, regarding the site staff. I had taken time to type out honest criticism of the site, and it was removed due to being “off topic” along with a mess of other posts. I posted it in a fanpost, and that was removed, although no reason was given. Also, it seemed to final straw to my banning was my pointing out that Mr. Collette’s own posting of the site’s growing visits was also offtopic, yet it remained unhidden. This was my ban message:
This site has gotten to the point where criticism and even jokes (and in the case of yesterday and another member, jokes responding to his own jokes) are no longer tolerated and the perpetrator faces banishment. It’s basically fascist, and it seems like the kind of thing people from Fahrenheit 451 have to dance around, and that shouldn’t be the case.
I took my grievances to OTTOTD.com last night, and in the morning, I emailed Mr. Collette to unban me so that I could participate in this thread, and this is the email back and forth that took place (only one from each of us, so not much of a back and forth, and my initial email comes first):
He is (mis)quoting from my comments on OTTOTD.com.
Is this the way a site manager should act/react to criticism? Until he stops concerning himself with his own image, and let’s not kid ourselves that it’s all about the image of the site to him, DRB is not going to be anywhere near as progressive as I’m sure many of the members would like it to be.
Below is the post that was deleted twice last night:
SandalsNoPants - January 23, 2012
Sounds like you'll really like Steve's response!
Hatfield - January 23, 2012
welcome back - all is anew now
Jason Collette - January 23, 2012
All is anew?
Is that why you wouldn’t unban me this morning?
You’ve been a really shitty site manager here for a while now, and I’m not ready to start anew after last night. You’re unprofessional, and you have a very thin skin. Trying to brush stuff off like this (and like the article itself in this instance) is BS, and anyone with a brain who knows how to use it can figure it out. Good luck ever looking credible again in your attempt to get recognized.
SandalsNoPants - January 23, 2012
get over yourself
Ryan Gilliss - January 23, 2012
well
If I’m willing to forgive this
Certainly you can put the past behind, no?
Jason Collette - January 23, 2012
That's not from this site, and it's also true.
I don’t give a shit if you forgive that or not. Stop being obsessed with your image.
SandalsNoPants - January 23, 2012
Go Rays!!
Jason Collette - January 23, 2012
at least he didn't call you Jason
pudieron89 - January 23, 2012
all Jasons are pieces of shit, by nature
It comes with the name
Jason Collette - January 23, 2012
Hey, man, watch it
Sandy Kazmir - January 23, 2012
Every Jason I knew in school - bastards
Every Jason I had as a student – bastards
It’s the name, and I’m using a sample size of 37, give or take 20
Jason Collette - January 23, 2012
Don't forget Jason Vorheeves...
witty - January 24, 2012
You know you are an ass.
Why deny it?
DeadeyeRR - January 24, 2012
Something I noticed on other SBN sites but not here(or else I'm not looking too hard/well)
-Lists of twitter accounts of writers/top users/former writers
This can be useful because we all do usually talk to each other on twitter and incase there’s breaking news, someone will RT it like wildfire.
Jacob Larsen - January 24, 2012
If I'm not listed as a "top user", I'm leaving.
Hatfield - January 24, 2012
No Polk County Users are top users
unless it is meth
DeadeyeRR - January 24, 2012
Not to mention, if your academic talents only get you into Florida Southern, you aren't top anything
Jason Collette - January 24, 2012
it's like the UCF of FL private colleges.
rglass44 - January 24, 2012
so the most awesome place this side of Wake Forest?
nice
Jason Collette - January 24, 2012
Voted Most Beautiful Campus in the United States!
Hatfield - January 24, 2012
Isn't it the size of a cul-de-sac?
Jason Collette - January 24, 2012
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