Gregory Shamus - Getty Images
about 1 year ago: DETROIT, MI - APRIL 08: Will Rhymes #28 of the Detroit Tigers chases down a seventh inning ground ball while playing the Kansas City Royals on Opening Day at Comerica Park on April 8, 2011 in Detroit, Michigan. Detroit won the game 5-2. (Photo by Gregory Shamus/Getty Images)
After talking with Ryan Theriot and Jeff Keppinger recently, the Rays finally signed a backup utility infielder: Will Rhymes. As Tommy Rancel notes over at ESPN Florida, Rhymes is built in a similar mold as Theriot: he's a contact hitter with low power and a good walk rate, although his infield defense is at best average. He primarily played second base for the Tigers last season, but he's played all over the diamond in the minor leagues and the Rays will likely use that flexibility as much as possible.
The Rays signed Rhymes to a minor league deal, so he's cheap and can easily be demoted to the minors if he doesn't win a roster spot in spring training. He will likely be competing with Elliot Johnson for the utility infield roster spot, and it could be a close race. Johnson seems to be the better defender of the two, but Rhymes has more offensive upside and is a weapon on the base paths.
Rhymes is outgoing and slightly eccentric, which should help him fit in well in the Rays clubhouse. He runs a vocal Twitter account (@willrhymes), and much like Kelly Shoppach's obsession with Starbucks, he's a Chipotle connoisseur. Luckily for him there's a Chipotle not too far away from the Trop, so he'll be able to get his fix whenever he needs it.
Everyone got your #LegendofWillRhymes hastag ready to go? I could easily see Rhymes becoming a fan favorite if he makes the club, so we'll have to see how things shake out this spring.
0 recs | 113 comments
from Sheehan this morning
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/joe_sheehan/01/13/free.agent.value/index.html#ixzz1k0NejuRs
Jason Collette - January 20, 2012
but Rhymes has more offensive upside and is a weapon on the base paths.
1 SB, 3 CS in 83 games. I see his minor league #s are good but that’s bizarre.
Imperialism32 - January 20, 2012
It seems like a org philosophy. Tigers have the lowest SB total in the majors since 2010.
When Fuld came here he had 3 SB attempts in 98 games with the Cubs. I’m sure part of the appeal to Rhymes and the Rays was to let him run more.
Tommy Rancel - January 20, 2012
You would think a team with a low org total would hav e a high success rate by only employing the strategy when its a sure thing
Granted 4 attempts is a fairly meaningless sample. EJ had great success in AAA too on the paths.
FreeZorilla - January 20, 2012
In 2011
Tigers only attempted 69 steals as a team which was lowest in the American League.
Jason Collette - January 20, 2012
(insert #420 joke here)
nomoredevil - January 20, 2012
Leyland doesn't run much
Jason Collette - January 20, 2012
because he smokes too much
DeadeyeRR - January 20, 2012
Rhymes should be informed about the Taco Bus just up the road from the Trop.
BlakeBuchanan87 - January 20, 2012
was thinking this, kills Chipotle. mmmm pollo verde...
pudieron89 - January 20, 2012
(Especially at 3AM on your way back from Fubar/Sake Bomb/Emerald/etc.)
pudieron89 - January 20, 2012
I hear Foster is trying to put the kibosh on Downtown Tampa's new Taco Bus
td32 - January 20, 2012 via mobile
i wonder if ive bumped in to pudding ron at FUBAR the 5 times ive gone with my brother...
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
Did you see someone who looks angry?
Hatfield - January 20, 2012
have you been to FUBAR? everyone looks angry.
i went there with my bro once on xmas eve after our big familt bash. of course im wearing a suit and a MONTE Vineyard Vines Xmas tie, and all the hipster trash wants to fight me cause their girls were making eyes. they do have good beer though.
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
I only go when I'm in town, round the holidays. I try not to talk to people that frequent there because they are dirty and poor.
They do however have a great beer selection as does Sake Bomb, although I’ve met the owner of that establishment and he seems like a douche.
pudieron89 - January 20, 2012
that's basically me. my bro is a regular, though.
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
can't really beat Tremens on tap.
pudieron89 - January 20, 2012
yes you can. it's rare though.
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
in the warzone?
pudieron89 - January 20, 2012
oh lordno
rglass44 - January 21, 2012
Bar next to UCF Arena has Tremens & La Fin Du Monde on tap
Food sucks, table service sucks, but a stool up at the bar is a guaranteed great pregame & post-game
Jason Collette - January 20, 2012
i freaking love fin du monde. unibroue is one of my favorite breweries, if not my top. ephemere, trois pistoles, all so good.
pudieron89 - January 20, 2012
wrong country, froggyron.
rglass44 - January 21, 2012
those quebecois know how to brew a good Belgian dammit
there are plenty of crafts i enjoy from the USA.
pudieron89 - January 21, 2012
Rhymes signing supports upgrade at 1B option
Friedman bypassing Theriot/Keppinger for lower priced option of Rhymes as back utility IF keeps budget money available for upgrade at 1B. I’m just feeling a 2nd bat upgrade.
RayJzone - January 20, 2012
good point
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
David Schoenfield proved how much of an idiot he is.
by leaving the Rays off of his top 5 rotations in baseball.
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/20057/ranking-the-five-best-starting-rotations
Peter Piontek - January 20, 2012
Yet another writer who talks about a Rays' SP BABIP...
While ignoring the fact that the team has lead the league for four straight seasons and only one pitcher on the staff (Shields) has been above .286 during that run
Jason Collette - January 20, 2012
seems like the first 2 of his 4 "points" are not reasons to be pessimistic, but quite the opposite. Team defense isn't getting much if any worse from last season if we can find someone to replace Kotch's scoops.
pudieron89 - January 20, 2012
So what are we using to judge a rotation?
If it’s true talent level, in a neutral park and with neutral defense, then he may have a point. If it’s based on how they’ll do in 2012 counting park and defense, then no. Is there a list of FIP/xFIP numbers by rotation for 2011?
Imperialism32 - January 20, 2012
Schoenfield must have used a dart board.
I doubt he used stats to back anything up.
Peter Piontek - January 20, 2012
The way his comments read, it sounds like .223 regressing to .290-.310 range
FIP/xFIP by staff
Jason Collette - January 20, 2012
and
FIP/xFIP by rotation
Jason Collette - January 20, 2012
So Rays rotation was 17th in FIP and 14th in xFIP
But oh no, it’s crazy to not call them a top-5 rotation
Imperialism32 - January 20, 2012
They were in the exact same place in 2010 (4.24/4.08)
and finished tied for 10th in starter ERA
in 2011, finished 4th overall and tops in the AL at 3.53
3 of the past four seasons, the team’s ERA has come in well below its FIP. On a pure talent level…
Arizona? Joe F’n Saunders on a staff should DQ them automatically and Collmenter is all smoke and mirrors. None of their 1-3 guys would be anything but a 3 here
Yankees? 1-3 is arguable, 1-5 isn’t
Rangers? No, and I LOVE Dutch Oven
Phillies – best 1-3 in baseball, but the difference between 1-5 isn’t THAT much
Angels? 1-4 is damn good. #5 is damn awful
Jason Collette - January 20, 2012
I'd have to put the Angels definitely ahead of the Rays.
Can’t really argue with Wilson, Weaver, and Haren.
Steve Slowinski - January 20, 2012
What is your argument against the numbers though?
I mean, obviously 2011 doesn’t exactly translate to 2012, but going from 14/17 to top-5 seems like a stretch. Is it Peter Piontek’s argument that our pitchers pitch to the defense?
I mean, your argument seems like it’s basically the eye test.
Imperialism32 - January 20, 2012
Just that the team continually outperforms their numbers
and that’s mixing NL & AL run environments
Jason Collette - January 20, 2012
All right, but it goes back to what we're calling "best"
Staff ERA or staff FIP/xFIP
Imperialism32 - January 20, 2012
In this case, a mix of talent & results
Using the eye test, I don’t know how one can put AZ over our guys
Jason Collette - January 20, 2012
Wouldn't it be a mixture of all the data available?
Including scouting or the eye test?
Peter Piontek - January 20, 2012
Sure, but I wouldn't call him an idiot for leaving the Rays out of the top 5
Imperialism32 - January 20, 2012
Okay but Arizona and Texas?
I get the Phillies and can deal with LA because it’s close. Same with the Yankees , it’s close but that rotation is not “better” than the Rays 1-5
Peter Piontek - January 20, 2012
I agree, I guess. I don't know how SF isn't up there
And I could see an argument for Miami, although that’s counting on 200 innings from Josh Johnson, which he’s only done once.
Imperialism32 - January 20, 2012
Yeah i think my problem wasn't that we weren't on his top 5
but the teams he had ahead of us. leaving SF off is ridiculous. Miami also could be great if Johnson is and stays healthy.
Peter Piontek - January 20, 2012
San Fran is really only 3 deep.
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
aare you seriously arguing that we should use ERA to measure the pitching staff? that's embarrassing.
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
Hey, we agree on something
Imperialism32 - January 20, 2012
Count me in this coalition
FreeZorilla - January 20, 2012
And me!
mr. maniac - January 20, 2012
can't track replies...
me?
No, I wouldn’t argue that point in the slightest. I only pointed it out that show the team has outpitched what it “should be” doing in both standard & advanced metrics.
Jason Collette - January 20, 2012
I don't understand what you are saying
FreeZorilla - January 20, 2012
agreed
rglass44 - January 21, 2012
Defense and park
FreeZorilla - January 20, 2012
well az was even lower in WAR and FIP.
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
I'd have it this way.....
1. Phillies
2. Angels
3. Rays
4. Yankees
mr. maniac - January 20, 2012
1 and 2 are nearly 1 and 1a
but yea, I like this list
Jason Collette - January 20, 2012
i have a hard time putting us 3
rglass44 - January 21, 2012
they were 10th in WAR. pitching a lot of innings is a very good thing.
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
Use the team leaderboards at FG.
Here.
4th in ERA
10th in WAR
12th in SIERA
14th in xFIP
17th in FIP
Steve Slowinski - January 20, 2012
Thanks (to you and Collette)
I guess I just don’t see it as being so bad to not call it a top-5 rotation
Imperialism32 - January 20, 2012
Yeah, I agree. I think we're being a bit fanboy happy with the rotation.
Nothing wrong with that, and I’m guilty of it myself…I’m pretty high on this group. But I think our rotation is a rather high-variance one. It has the potential to be absolute nuts — Price improves, Shields doesn’t regress much, Helly improves, Moore dominates, etc. — but a more realistic scenario involves some regression from last year.
Helly may improve his periphs, but he’s not a sub-3 ERA guy yet…not even close. Price had his struggles last season, Shields definitely had a career year, and Moore…I want to believe he’ll be amazing, but realistically speaking, prospects don’t become Cy Young contenders their rookie year. There will be bumps and bruises along the way.
Steve Slowinski - January 20, 2012
I don't know.
Moore is on pace for 200 innings next year. He has been compared to Strausburg (although Strausburg is favored) and Strausburg, if he was healthy for 200 innings in 2010, would have been a legit Cy Young contender. I’ve seen plenty of people mentioning Moore’s name in the Cy Young pool (not myself though).
mr. maniac - January 20, 2012
Right we are certainly top 5 in run prevention
FreeZorilla - January 20, 2012
Yeah, depends how you define "best".
I’m with ya…makes sense.
Steve Slowinski - January 20, 2012
To expand
So the Rays outperform their metrics because of park and defense, great. But take a rotation with better FIP/xFIP and stick them in the Trop, and they’d likely best the Rays, right? So that makes them a better rotation.
Imperialism32 - January 20, 2012
Here is my problem with metrics like FIP
Pitchers generally pitch to the defense behind them and neutralizing the defense to me just doesn’t make much sense. If you have a great defense then you utilize it.
Peter Piontek - January 20, 2012
Shields and Price aren't taking advantage. They don't struggle with Ks.
You have a point with Hellickson, but Davis just can’t strike anyone out and Niemann is where he should be.
mr. maniac - January 20, 2012
To add on to this...
You have a point with Hellickson.
mr. maniac - January 20, 2012
how would we know how they pitch with a different defense?
Sveet - January 20, 2012
FFUUUUU
Sveet - January 20, 2012
how would we know how they pitch with a different defense?
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
We don't.
And it is not fair to assume they would pitch differently.
mr. maniac - January 20, 2012
how would we know how they pitch with a different defense?
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
how would we know how they pitch with a different defense?
Sveet - January 20, 2012
exactly.
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
I'd have to imagine the Rays will go up alot next year.
Price and Shields both never get injured and seem like very likey bets to get 4 WAR each (assuming Shields doesn’t get crappy luck twice in three years).
Moore, on a conservative note, it a 2.5-3 WAR pitcher. And assuming Hellickson goes back to being Hellickson, he is a 3 WAR pitcher. That leaves Niemann, who is somewhere around a 1.5-2 WAR pitcher. Facotr in Cobb for some of Niemann’s injury starts, and that is (conservatively) another .5 WAR.
That gives the Rays 16 WAR rotation if your being conservative. Going off last year’s numbers, that should be a top 5 rotation. The Angels and the Phillies are quite a bit ahead though.
mr. maniac - January 20, 2012
What the heck?
I had a three paragraph reply about the Rays rotation that I submitted that dissappeared and these crap double replies appeared. What the heck?
mr. maniac - January 20, 2012
The Rays have a 16 WAR rotation next year if you are conservative.
4 for Shields and Price, 2.5-3 for Moore, 3 for Hellickson, and 1.5-2 from Niemann.
Looking at last year’s numbers, that should be top 5. Still way behind the Angels and Phillies though.
mr. maniac - January 20, 2012
3 wins for hellickson is generous
benderbrodriguez - January 20, 2012
This
FreeZorilla - January 20, 2012
More importantly for Rhymes is there a Chipoltle close to Durham Athletic Park?
Sveet - January 20, 2012
Pretty obvious Pena & Boras are holding out for the multi year deal that probably doesn't come
If the offers in CLE had what he wanted he’d have signed, so the longer it goes the better the Rays chances. I don’t think Kotchman is what the Indians are looking for.
sternfan1 - January 20, 2012
I'm pretty sure Kotchman isn't what anyone is looking for
Sveet - January 20, 2012
Many AL teams would have been happy with his offense and defense at 1B last year
sternfan1 - January 20, 2012
Well it appears many teams don't think he is going to repeat last year
Sveet - January 20, 2012
Last year, yes.
Trick is, how likely is it to happen again?
Steve Slowinski - January 20, 2012
I bet there is someone interested in an overly sweaty first baseman
Barnacles - January 20, 2012
CLE is a pretty bad SP and defense and may be looking for a power bat at 1B
sternfan1 - January 20, 2012
yes
but why would Pena sign there.
Cleveland will need to trade for a bat to insure that they can get someone on a 1-year deal.
If Pena has to choose between a 1-year deal between Texas, Cleveland, Detroit, or Tampa which org would he go to?
I say Tampa but Detroit could give him slightly more $.
I don’t see Cle as the main competitor for Pena at this point.
MrNegative1 - January 20, 2012
Only and i'll say it again Only if they're the team that gives him multi years
which i don’t see. After this season the Indians could lose Hafner, Sizemore for sure and might trade Choo and Cabrera so signing Pena after ‘12 doesn’t make good sense
sternfan1 - January 20, 2012
even if given a multi-year offer
why would Pena want to stay around for a 2013 year? Why would any player want to be on a team that is going to be going through another rebuild after 2012? Is a few extra million worth it?
MrNegative1 - January 20, 2012
their defense is actually pretty good.
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
i'll side with MrNeg here who watches them every game
Asdrubal is a better 2B than SS
Kipnis is a converted second baseman
Chisenall is all about his bat
And at 1B neither Santana or LaPorta have any GG’s on their mantle
sternfan1 - January 20, 2012
yeah. i guess i was thinking they did more everett, OV, and assdribble than they did.
they ended up not rating well. i guess that was really only with “fausto” on the mound.
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
On the Rhymes signing i think this hurts Brignac as much as Johnson
He does have an option left so there’s no urgency to trade him OR put him on the OD roster
sternfan1 - January 20, 2012
i just cant see it. he cant play ss everyday in durham, so what does it do to put him there?
i bet he wont start OD because CC will be on the hill, but i bet he starts the second game.
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
Question:
For 2012 Only (gets rid of future worth, friendly contracts, age, etc): Would anyone here trade the Rays 1-5 to any of the 3 teams below for their 1-5 and feel better about the 2012 season?
1) Arizona
2) Texas
3) New York Yankees
Whose rotation would you trade for to feel better about the 2012 season?
MrNegative1 - January 20, 2012
No
Peter Piontek - January 20, 2012
No--but i don't work for ESPN either
sternfan1 - January 20, 2012
I would trade for the Phillies and Angels for sure.
mr. maniac - January 20, 2012
agree. Also would take the Phils Pen over the RAYS
drungo - January 20, 2012
neither have a #5 if that matters at all
sternfan1 - January 20, 2012
Fat Joe got so overrated he's now underrated.
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
He's really stepped it up since Big Pun died.
Hatfield - January 20, 2012
HE KILLED BIG PUN
Ryan Gilliss - January 20, 2012
It matters.
But Halladay-Lee-Hamels is just incredible. That is essentially as good as the while Rays rotation right there.
mr. maniac - January 20, 2012
They should go with a three man staff
Ryan Gilliss - January 20, 2012
the Yanks maybe. Hard to say with TEX because they have two huge "?" in Feliz and Darvish.
rglass44 - January 20, 2012
Tim Brown of Yahoo reporting Rays are "in pretty deep" in Pena talks
If this follows suit with the Scott signing it could happen today. If you’ll recall it started this way and two or three hours later it was confirmed.
sternfan1 - January 20, 2012
my bro just texted me
Says Pena signed to 1yr deal…
mooreCOWBELL - January 20, 2012 via iPhone app
Mike Morse signs a multi-year deal with Nats
http://twitter.com/NationalsPR/statuses/160472542937747458
I guess he’s off the trade market
Jason Collette - January 20, 2012
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