DRaysBay

But srsly, $tu, take some lessons from vinik on how to run a successful Sports franchise. At least vinik lives in the area!!!

Haha, well played

td32 - January 19, 2012 reply

My dad (god love him) seriously holds the opinion that people don't connect to the Rays the way they did to the Dungy/Gruden Bucs because the Rays players don't live in the community during the offseason.

Really? I know several that live in Channelside area...

td32 - January 19, 2012 reply

It's what his dad believes

What Tampa guys do you have?

Shields
Deezy
Joyce
Upton
Price
Briggy

Not sure about Longo

Many more then the Dungy/Gruden Bucs imo

maybe as a percentage...

but the Rays have the advantage of so many teams having their Spring Trainings on the west coast of Florida.

Longo has a place, but works out in Phoenix...

Srod lives in the area. Kotch;) Dont know where Zobrist lives. But that’s a good amount of the starters.

td32 - January 19, 2012 reply

If Stu wants people to come to the trop he should invest his own money to spruce it up just like Vinik did.

Wait….what??? He did do this?

Ok I got nothing

I've heard that Vinik expects to recoup much his renovation expenditures through the RNC convention

This x100.

People have such short term memories.

And it wasn't cheap either

He invested millions in this.

I think people forget how much of a hellhole that place was before Stu came to town

Tropicana Field underwent a further $25-million facelift prior to the 2006 season. Another $10 million in improvements was added during the season. In 2006, the Devil Rays added a live Cownose ray tank to Tropicana Field. The tank is located just behind the center field wall, in clear view of the play on the field. People can go up to the tank to touch the creatures. Further improvements prior to the 2007 offseason, in addition to the new FieldTurf, include additional family features in the right field area, the creation of a new premium club, and several new video boards including a new 35 ft (11 m) x 64 ft (20 m) Daktronics LED main video board that is four times larger than the original video board. The 2007 renovation also added built-in high-definition television capabilities to the ballpark, with Fox Sports Florida and WXPX airing at least a quarter of the schedule in HD in 2007 and accommodating the new video board’s 16×9 aspect ratio.

Exactly

$35 million isn’t exactly chump change. The Rays have done everything they can to make the Trop look as good as they possibly can. No doubt about it, they made an effort.

And, of course, the Tampa Bay Times article has to throw one stink bomb in there....

BJ Upton? Really? He makes it sound like BJ is a burden at his price and that the Rays haven’t traded him because no one wants him.

This was pretty funny.

jtmorgan - January 19, 2012 reply

Now here's what Stu probably really hinted at

If he’s aloud to explore all areas of Tama Bay and all efforts for a new stadium here fail, then he’s forced to consider other areas. MLB and Sternberg aren’t about to give up on such a huge market like Tampa/Orlando before exhausting all measures

sternfan1 - January 19, 2012 reply

That's my thought too...I can't imagine them giving up on Tampa Bay unless something really caves through.

The alternatives out there aren’t very attractive.

this was $tus best move yet

All along $tu said the rays need regional support. And how can you get that if both sides of the bay are competing against each other? But by threatening the viability of the entire area, he can get st Pete and Tampa to do what they rarely do…work together.

raysfaninminnesota - January 19, 2012 via mobile reply

makes perfect sense--well said and thought out

sternfan1 - January 19, 2012 reply

He's been doing this for over a year now?

How so?

I’ve never heard Buckhorn talk about any marketing efforts for the Rays right now…just describing how the Rays are a “regional asset.” And now Foster has to show the area can support the Rays.

Buckhorn has to tread carefully

Anything he says could be construed as a violation of the Rays agreement

Which is why if he said the Rays are a "regional asset"

He needs to work with them now to help create interest, and not just if they move to the other side of the bay. That would give St. Pete grounds for litigation, if it comes to that point.

Huh, good point...I could definitely see that.

exactly. let me explore the bay area or ill be forced to explore all areas.

The train thing is a start, but the proper infrastructure for that is probably 15 years or more away too, just in time for the lease to run out.

The problem with the train is I/other Tampa residents would still have to drive to a garage just to get to the train. I would rather drive and be there in the same amount of time. Foster would be better off letting the team move to Tampa, but as part of the deal have a train from the hot-spots in St. Pete funnel to the new stadium.

but then you could sober up on the train.

have you ever lived in an area with viable public transit?

BlakeBuchanan87 - January 19, 2012 reply

Negotiations 101: Set up an extreme view so your goal is actually considered the middle ground

Stu is probably starting grandiose so he can obtain his actual goal of not leaving the region, but simply moving to Tampa. He’s a pretty savvy negotiator.

I still can't believe $tu bought this team for a little over $50 million.

For him to cry about making money is sickening. He could walk away today with a 200% profit if not more while never falling into the red during a single season.

The Pat Burrell contract cost him a second private island, you base cur.

That seems like a baseless assumption.

As of 2009...

According to Forbes magazine, the value of the Rays franchise has gone up to $320 million, a 10 percent increase over last season that is third largest in the majors.

As far as not going into the red, I’m wrong there. They probably took a slight loss in 2008.

I was referring to going into the red, BTW.

what an asshole. by an undervalued asset. improve the shit out of it. make the stakeholders giddy. get more stakeholders.

then see the “value” skyrocket.

you do realize the only reason the “value” has skyrocketed is because of their great job, right? it isnt like the people in the area did anything. give me a effing break.

While I dislike the guy as much as the next one, please avoid front page profanity

i was referring to stu.

My daughter refers to hers as her bum-bum hole. Maybe you could censor yourself and use that?

Just trying to help.

This is the logic that frustrates the crap out of me as well

He earned the uptick in value because he put competent people in a position to succeed. This further shows he’s doing his part. But that has its limit. And the Rays payroll shows that. Any business that does well does two things: yearly revenue and value of business revenue. That value of business revenue comes only if someone decides to sell. But that revenue is not how one primarily earns their coin. The year-to-year is critical…and also heavily influences the price of selling the business.

The value of the Rays may go up, but no one will want to buy them if they are sustaining year-to-year losses. DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.

So it's ok that he continues to threaten to leave?

I’m didn’t say the guy was bad. He has done a great job. But threatening to leave a situation that he knew he was getting into when he is clearly making money is frustrating. As a businessman, I understand his points, but as a fan I don’t like having to hear about how terrible things are for him.

playjoyce - January 19, 2012 via mobile reply

How do we know he is clearly raking in money?

THe team’s value has gone up, not his savings account.

Why not sell then?

playjoyce - January 19, 2012 via mobile reply

He doesn't have to sell...at some point he can move it. It's his business and he can do what he wants with it

He has a right to threaten to move as a negotation ploy in the same way Foster has a right to wave the lease in the air as another negotation ploy. The key is moving past the ploys to finding common ground where both sides get more of what they want.

exactly. it isnt threats, but rather he is stating facts.

if they put a winner on the field, and they cant get butts in the seats, then it isnt a viable market. thats pretty clear. so what is a business owner to do? look for a more viable market where they can make more money, and quite possibly, put a better team on the field. he owes the community nothing.

Ok.

I agree with everything being said. He can do what he wants, he has the right to move, not to sell, etc.

My point is that if he is trying to indict the entire market in a ploy to get them to work together, then he risks losing the Tampa market fans too. If his real goal is to move to Tampa, then telling Tampa residents that they are not good enough fans to support baseball is a bad move, especially in this economy and if this is a very protracted process (I.e. 15 more years on the lease). People will get sick of hearing about Stu’s high-class problems. he obviously thinks the team is worth much more than its current value, and he wants to keep it, which is fine.

Also, according to Foster on Sileo this morning, Stu was jokingly asking about a Marlins-type deal. Again, he can do what he wants, its his team, but he is not the messiah of owners that he is portrayed as. I think moving the team to Tampa is fine, but to start saying the whole market is bad and think we are going to pass a tax to build a stadium is a strange strategy. That’s like telling a customer they kinda suck, but if I’m stuck with you, so I’m going to charge you extra to receive my services. The customer will just go elsewhere. Especially in the entertainment industry in a bad economy

playjoyce - January 19, 2012 via mobile reply

Keep in mind Stu has said nothing about the meeting

exactly

Foster is definitely out there trying to control the message

That’s a downside of the Rays’ policy on staying quiet on things, but eventually Foster is going to say the wrong thing. I don’t believe for a second that Stu would even crack a joke like that because that type of deal spawned a SEC investigation.

I missed the Sileo show this morning (like every other morning)...

but at best this is fourth hand information

You should miss it every morning

Air pollution….he’s the reason why I first bought my satellite radio when he was in Orlando. Maybe he’s improved since then but man he was awful here.

He interviewed Foster live this morning

Some interesting things were said

I'm pretty positive that a number of them were twisting the truth or lies.

I know I was somewhat reserved in my post, but personally, I don’t believe Stu would say half these things Foster is putting in his mouth.

Fair enough

I can only go on what I hear come from their mouths. Since Foster is the only one talking, its only his side that is being presented.

Foster didn't claim that Stu wanted a Miami deal

He said that it they were joking about it. That is why I said "jokingly"

There was something about them talking about it “tongue in cheek”. I can’t listen again, my sound card got fried.

I just listened to it and took notes...

Foster never said that Stu wanted a Miami deal, even jokingly. He did say that Stu likes Miami’s stadium.

I'm going to listen to it right now...

I’ll update with any important info

You'd be shocked how often they don't go elsewhere.

where has he said the fans are bad? ive never read that. ive seen where he said "this may not be a viable market."

can you disagree with that?

Anyone who has a business will move it somewhere else if it helps him turn a bigger profit

That’s just common sense.

i dont think they did know that people wouldnt come to the trop with a winner on the field. i certainly would have expected it.

They definitely didn't

or else they wouldn’t have originally proposed a new stadium in st. pete.

They jumped 5k in 2008

Who knew that was all they’d get from it

PriceMultiCyYoungs - January 19, 2012 reply

"shit" is profanity now?

I beleive he only owns 51% not 100%

That 50 millions didn’t buy 100% of the team

That is my understanding too.

He would stand to make $110+ million off of the $50mill he invested if he sold for what they are valued at. That assumes there is a buyer.

playjoyce - January 19, 2012 via mobile reply

good luck selling it at the valuation if the next oner cant move the team.

Could be an MLB-owned thing a la Expos

then they surely wont get fair value.

essentially, the "value" of the team is what someone is willing to pay for it. forbes' valuation has no bearing on that.

especially considering the very, very, VERY limited data they base it on.

MLB could cut a deal with Stu

You never know what Bud may draw up

Stop

This is stupid logic. Stop it.

This is Politics in St Pete

Foster and Kennedy are 2 peas in a pod. They are back stabbing liars and in no way are they going to solve this issue. Kennedy was chairman of the council and cut off Leslie Curran at every attempt she made to get Foster to the table. Foster used Kennedy and his seat to hide from questioning from the council members. Now Foster brings him to the table with Stu. Leslie now has the chair and things will start moving in a positive direction.
Foster called Susan Latvala a liar when he said the Rays were sandbagging. Foster is full of Crapola. Get Foster out of office and let the Tampa Bay area have some fun.

Landlord - January 19, 2012 reply

First step: Get the Rays a new building

Second step: Reinstate dancing

http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2010/graphics/rays-timeline/

This timeline should be front and center

That’s where we are at. We’re now in the medium risk zone of no action

That is some cool stuff.

Maybe living in Orlando means I don't care about this issue very much

but I don’t see why anyone would want their community to publicly fund a stadium for a sports franchise. It’s not a good deal, long term for the community since it only fattens the pockets of the owner. If there were a viable market for relocation, it would be one thing, but the Rays really have no almost no leverage here. Good for Foster for pointing it out.

Right now, if the Rays want a stadium then they should finance it. If I want to buy a house, I don’t ask the local government to build me one.

Barnacles - January 19, 2012 reply

Ownership should carry most of the burden, but not all of it

I forgot what DeVos milked out of our local government here, but his initial proposal of paying 10% while asking city to pay 90% was comical.

even if that is a 51/49 split

The Miami situation certainly does not help public perception

No big deal if we lose the Rays

The marlins are a regional asset

FreeZorilla - January 19, 2012 reply

lolz

Not since they rebranded themselves as the Miami Marlins

I just don’t feel a kinship with them any longer

make the entire building out of solar panels and have barry pay 30%.

Barry my boy is in Orlando today

A good friend of mine is signing the national anthem at his Disney appearance today

Legit question...

are they singing it or are they signing it?

I'm turrible

She’s singing it…someone else signing it

but if you bought a house

you’d want electrical/gas/water/sewer and a road to drive up to with traffic lights/stop signs/etc it built by the local government right?

In essence, the idea has to be that the taxpayer help with the utilities and road infrastructure etc

Additionally monies beyond that can be collected in one of many ways that are user fee taxes like on tobacco/alcohol, hotel rooms, rental cars, etc.

If you were to put a tax on homeowners for instance to build this stadium it would fail in both either county and everyone, including Sternberg knows this. If he tried to get financing this way it would be an indication to me that he wants out of the area and picked the sure guaranteed failure way to do it.

It’s funny, Sternberg has all the leverage because one way or another he is taking his team somewhere else to play before the end of the lease. He has made it perfectly clear.

MrNegative1 - January 19, 2012 reply

Funding solutions are going to be very interesting to follow

Sin taxes, tourist taxes, etc. Hell, if they dropped the $2 surcharge for sameday purchases and called it a stadium fund fee ($1 per every ticket), at least fans could track where that money was going. Sure, it would have amounted to $1.6M or so this year, but that’s that would have equated to ~$5M over the past few seasons.

it's always fun

to see how the financing comes together. The looking at the dark and negative side of the issue is pointless.

I would enjoy the chess game much more if the victor (Sternberg) wasn’t already decided. Foster, just has to find the way to look as if he is doing a huge favor by laying down his king.

MrNegative1 - January 19, 2012 reply

as a rays fan, id like to see a publicly funded stadium. as an economist, i wouldnt. rays fan generally wins, though.

in all honesty, though, if people in fl are going to start paying taxes, id rather see it go to moving them in to the 21st century as far as transit and infrastructure goes. ill believe that the state full of people on their death bed will take the longview about anything when i see it.

I live in Orlando too,

and I haven’t felt anything but positive effects from our recent public funding of a sports stadium.

ChrisInFla - January 19, 2012 reply

I agree with all of your points. I live in NE St Pete and attend 40 games a year. I support the RAYS via attendance and viewership

I also own 2 homes here and pay what I feel is an excessive amount in property taxes. As much as it would kill me to lose the RAYS to a location outside of TB, I am 100% against my taxes being increased to pay for the majority share of a new stadium.

Foster is taking the correct position for the majority of those who elected him. However as leader of this city, he must attempt to leverage his position onto the community to support the RAYS attendance and be part of the “solution”.

drungo - January 19, 2012 reply

I guess my thing with Florida and taxes is...

I mean, you guys don’t have a state income tax, right? That’s absolutely unheard of in many other states…I get nailed with a fed income tax, a crazy high state income tax, and a sales tax that’s not all that different from FL’s.

I’d be interested to see something on how FL’s overall tax rates stack up against other states, because it seems to me like the lack of a state income tax has really got to help matters and make the overall tax burden low.

I guess the one large variable I'm neglecting here is the property tax, which drungo alludes to.

That’s outside my realm of knowledge…guess that could account for some of the difference.

Property tax is brutal but not as much as income tax IIRC.

You can always downsize or rent at least to lessen your Property Tax burden

You can’t do that with income

Yes you can. You can make less money

Then you're just poorer then

How does that solve your problem?

Unless you wanna be a welfare king/queen #politicalhumor

There's a listing on p. A.4 of today's Wall St. Journal

of the 10 states with the highest state-local tax burden (NJ, NY, Conn. are the top 3, CA is no. 6) & the 10 states with the lowest state-local tax burden. (AL, NV, SD have the lowest). Fla. isn’t on either list. Without a state income tax, the property and sales taxes must be very high for Fla. not to be in the 10-lowest list.

maris61 - January 19, 2012 reply

The East Coast of Florida is brutal

Going to the source for the lists in the WSJ

which is www.taxfoundation.org , it lists Fla. as the 31-st highest tax burden state, based on 2009 FY data (the most recent available).

maris61 - January 19, 2012 reply

This is not including the insanely home-owners insurance either.

And it sure would be nice to be able to move….oh yeah everyone is upside down on their houses except for upstarts.

That might be a little skewed because our per-capita income isn't as high as other states.

and property values as a share of per capita income (largely due to folks taht own homes from out of state).

Taxes in Florida are a wee bit on the proportional/regressive compared to the rest of the nation

Why do you think everyone moves here

State Income Tax buries the middle-class & poor because they can’t move.

Anything to back this up?

Not on hand-maybe later I can find some articles when I have extra time

But my reasoning for it is-If you’re wealthy, you can move & establish residence in a more tax-friendly state because you have large wealth or a job that allows you to move. Don’t necessarily have this option if you’re a regular worker really.

California

maris61 - January 19, 2012 reply

it's insanely low because a bunch of people with no stake in the area move there as a tax shelter when they quit working. and they vote alot.

they dont care what florida looks like in 10 years. they dont care about florida’s kids succeeding. in fact, it behooves them to have a state of hotel employees or waiters because it keeps their cost of living down.

sad but true

What about tax dollars going to a performing arts center or to bring in events like the grand prix, etc.?

I think people overexaggerated how much a new stadium would cost them personally. Would you even notice the difference?

People in hillsborough complain about paying for RayJay. Have those taxes had a negative impact on anyone that lives in Tampa’s lives. Honest question.

It increased the property values of those living around it.

Wasn't RayJay (along with other projects) paid for with a sales tax?

Tourism Taxes I believe

Nope...

it was a half-penny sales tax

What about no new taxes don't you understand?

Roads, hospitals, schools, loans, police, and fire: they can all hang on the mercy of the private sector.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here

#AbsurdAntiGvmtStances

I haven't had an anti-government stance...

I mentioned that RayJay was paid for through a sales tax increase

I know.

I was being facetious.

Okay...

I was just quibbling with the Hillsborough county residents paid for it line in Sveet’s comment.

Idk

but you are a Tampa resident. Has that additional sales tax decreased your quality of life compared to what you gain by having an NFL and NCAA team play down the road?

Not at all...

considering that nearly every county in the area has some form of a penny or half penny sales tax, I’m all for its use this way.

Floridians feel the effect of property insurance more than taxes.

At least, I feel that way.

I just think and I could be wrong

that people wouldn’t even notice the change if Pinellas were to fund most of a new stadium.

I agree on that...

I don’t think the Rays are interested in Pinellas. I think once they can get Foster to start saying that the Rays are a regional team then they’ve opened the door to move to Tampa. No matter what it’s probably going to be determined in a courtroom.

This was more just in general for any stadium debate. You could insert any county in for Pinellas

Of the money spent from the CIT....

the stadium appears to have accounted for around 11%

hilarious. dumb floridians afraif of taxes. cry me a river.

It's just hurting us in the end anyway

There is a reason our education system is so crappy.

and there arent jobs. newsflash: bright, young people dont want to live in a place with horrible infastructure unless they have ties to it already.

businesses dont want to move where there isnt an educated workforce. look at the eutopia of seattle as an example. bob graham wrote a great opinion piece on new years day in the TBT about it in how it relates to the casino dealio.

I don't care. NO MORE TAXES MEANS NO MORE TAXES.

Tea Party!!

I would be willing to pay for the Rays to stay

Maybe I am one of the few, but it’s worth it to me for the entertainment I derive from it. My quality of life is improved

This.

Yep.

Joe's poll is really interesting.

And personally, I think it reveals pretty clearly that the “you had to be there line” and “greatest ever” debates are all about hype, and much less about personal experience. It seems to me like a majority of people just went down the list and chose one person from each sport:

Babe Ruth
Jim Brown/Jerry Rice
Michael Jordan
Wayne Gretzky
Pele

Did 44% of all voters really see Pele in his prime? Did 44% of all voters care? How many of them even know who Cruyff is, or know Zidane other than his headbutt? I doubt very many.

I’d like to see this poll done overall, and then done where people can only choose one sport that they really care about and then vote for 5 in it. I think it would tell us something about hype and fandom.

Whelk - January 19, 2012 reply

Was surprising that Tiger Woods wasn't there

taxing babes wasnt the pole.

*poll

twas a joke

rglass44 - January 21, 2012 reply

Golf wasn't part of the poll

Oh okay

Gretzky and Jordan are no doubters(I would say Ruth too)

after that it gets muddled.

Bonds

I just have such a hard time putting a guy as the best player of any sport ever who only competed against a certain race of peple from a certain country.

Not even getting in to the fact that people at the time did nothing to improve their game except show up to the park.

Well if you go this theory I would think you would need to go all soccer players

and maybe basketball.

Definitely no hockey or football.

or just not baseball players from the 20s

rglass44 - January 21, 2012 reply

I only voted Jordan

I think there are two takeaways from Foster's comments about the Tampa Bay area...

1. It’s in Foster’s best interest to play the card that to show that Tampa Bay is a viable area for MLB, fans need to attend the games NOW in the Trop.

“If the region wants the Rays to stay in the region, then Tampa Bay needs to support this team this year by putting their backsides in the seat and going to the game,” Foster said.

This serves his interest of keeping the Rays in St. Pete or at the very least Pinellas county.

2. If you want to believe that Stu is trying to move the team to Tampa, what better way is there to do that than to express concern about the viability of the region as a whole. This forces Foster to open up the possibility of Hillsborough county or try and stand on Pinellas county’s track record.

I tend to believe that point two is/was Stu’s endgame.

Nice to see Foster step up a bit on the show up or else front a bit

agreed

exactly

I'll be on KingDavid show at 2:20 today to discuss this with the guys

Sweet just before I leave for class

Rams may be moving back to LA-MENTION THIS-RUIN ANOTHER TEAM’S OFF-SEASON