Mike Ehrmann - Getty Images
8 months ago: ST PETERSBURG, FL - OCTOBER 03: Pitcher David Price #14 of the Tampa Bay Rays pitches in the second inning against the Texas Rangers in Game Three of the American League Division Series at Tropicana Field on October 3, 2011 in St Petersburg, Florida. (Photo by Mike Ehrmann/Getty Images)
Short and sweet:
0 recs | 65 comments
Counsell went to Notre Dame.
From the look of the age he was drafted, he probably graduated, also, but I don’t have time to look it up at this moment.
SandalsNoPants - January 18, 2012
(wikipedia blacked out)
pudieron89 - January 18, 2012
Racist Journalist Anderson
pudieron89 - January 18, 2012
me throw strikes long time
nomoredevil - January 18, 2012
You sure are putting a lot of your eggs into this Betemit basket, Collette. Have you been in contact with the FO?
pudieron89 - January 18, 2012
To which I'll retort, HELL no.
He’s an absolute butcher in the field. I mean REAL bad. And a bad baserunner…who somehow supported his value with a .391 BABIP last season. He doesn’t have good patience, not even close to Pena’s—actually struck out more than him last season while taking far fewer walks. And the only time he’s even sniffed a full time job was in 2006. I’d rather see Kotch than him.
He had a good 2010 at the plate with a slightly high BABIP. He had a meh 2011 at the plate with an insanely high BABIP. Give me Los over him any day of the week in 2012.
pudieron89 - January 18, 2012
Put me down as being against Betemit. While he's listed as a SH, Wily Aybar had better stats RH than him
sternfan1 - January 18, 2012
I don't want Betemit for his ability to hit as a RH guy
Outside of 2010, he hasn’t show he can
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
Ask yourself this
Longo gets hurt again, or whoever we sign at 1st goes to the DL – who replaces either?
Aybar was handy to have around in those cases. Yea, Betemit is not a good fielder but vs RHP, the guy hits. Jack F’n Cust, who is literally allergic to leather, just got a 2 year deal. Unless Betemit is asking for multiple years or ridiculous money, there is no need for him to still be without a job in the AL.
I want both guys, but if Pena goes for more money elsewhere, all hope isn’t lost (offensively)
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
SeanRoddy moves to 3B
sternfan1 - January 18, 2012
this, and call up TBex
pudieron89 - January 18, 2012
Who goes to 1st?
Scott? Then who DHs?
Net gain of playing a Brignac/Bex platoon so Rodriguez can play 3rd?
That’s the kind of offensive tipping point Friedman has mentioned. In the end, the 12 man pitching staff likely makes the point null and void but if the market is dry and the team can land him on a Kotchman like deal, I’d be thrilled.
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
THIS IS A TEMPORARY MOVE
temporary due to injury is by definition suboptimal. doesn’t mean we need to throw another mil or two at a sub with bad peripherals. holy crap collete, you’re completely ignoring the numbers in order to push this guy, it’s uncharacteristic and frankly perplexing.
pudieron89 - January 18, 2012
Sorry, I can't hear you. More caps please
And I’d argue I’ve done everything with numbers rather than just one year or one stat as you’ve leaned on.
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
You're being willfully ignorant if you actually believe the shit you just typed, I can't even debate with someone who is being this stupid. Enjoy your Betemit fest!
pudieron89 - January 18, 2012
have fun at ottotd, again
You know this type of behavior is not tolerated here
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
The consensus of your argument
BABIP
bad fielder
stupid
ignorant
This is not how we do things around here and you’ve been around here long enough to know this. I’m happy to have this discussion on an objective level but insults and profanity put you on the sidelines.
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
I'm also not the only guy making this match
http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2012/1/9/2692814/looking-at-the-remaining-buy-low-candidates
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/1/5/2685280/free-agents-mlb-rumors
http://riveraveblues.com/2011/12/cant-find-a-betemit-59509/
Either all 3 of us are f’n morons, or there’s something there. You be the judge
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
with V-Mart gone, Betemit makes more sense back to the Tigers
sternfan1 - January 18, 2012
there or NY would be good fits for him, but he didn't exactly inspire anyone in NY
The issue with him going back to Det is that for those who believe in lineup protection, Betemit is a step down from V-Mart whose presence still inspired teams to IBB Miggy 22 times last season.
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
since that would be 4, I am an f'n moron :(
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
they went with kotch because of the upside of a first round pick with good defense and the fact that we didn't already have a sure thing at 1B in Johnson.
I wouldn’t mind seeing them do the same thing this offseason…with a 1B, not a below average utilityman who can’t even use his glove properly.
pudieron89 - January 18, 2012
Cornermen OPS+ from 2009 to 2011 (min 500 PA)
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 1/18/2012.
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
"pudieron89, you've just shown why Betemit's success is perhaps not sustainable based on saber stats, but I have OPS+!!"
really, just awful.
pudieron89 - January 18, 2012
"stats"??
You used one, and out of context no less. He has posted BABIPs .344 or higher in four of his last six seasons. Sure, .391 last season was crazy high, but this a guy who is at .341 for his career.
PECOTA has him at 1.9 WAR for 2012 with a .326 BABIP, 29 XBH, & 41 RBI in 344 PA
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
I'm sorry, i didn't feel like posting every single one of his negative UZRs or Bsr.
Nor his suboptimal BB/K, but I mentioned ALL of it. So please, don’t refer to some stupid projection system that says a 30 year old career utility infielder with below average patience and abysmal fielding will post a 2WAR season (AS A UTILITY MAN?!?!) when his CAREER WAR is 3.3. Context is everything.
Sidebar: Is a career .341 BABIP sustainable for a guy with a career 3.2 Spd score? I don’t know so I’m asking. If it’s not, maybe he can just aim the ball well!! Oh no, we debunked that when you bashed people saying that about Kotch. Can’t have it both ways.
pudieron89 - January 18, 2012
He has had 26 infield hits his entire career of 1949 plate appearances
5 less than Kotchman had in 2011 alone. BPro has Betemit’s career WAR at 5.7 and most of that has come over the last 2 seasons when he finally saw +300 PA’s in back to back seasons
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
a lot of guys that "drive the ball" i.e. impatient line-drive hitters will end up with higher career BABIPs because they make a lot of good contact and spray it.
rglass44 - January 18, 2012
Yeah
Ryan Howard and Billy Butler both also have great career BABIPs despite being slo
benderbrodriguez - January 18, 2012
*slow
benderbrodriguez - January 18, 2012
Consider
2009-2011:
Player A: .355 wOBA, 120 wRC+
Player B: .351 wOBA, 118 wRC+
Player C: .359 wOBA, 119 wRC+
Player C….that’s Luke Scott
Player B…that’s C-Pain
Player A….that’s Betemit
I’m talking $2M for the bench instead of 450K for some reliever to work 2-3x a month in meaningless innings as Sonnanstine did last year. If this staff is as good as we all hope it is, why can’t a 6-man pen carry the load?
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
you may have convinced me. i still hate him.
rglass44 - January 18, 2012
I think we could do a lot worse than Betemit as a cheap, RH bench option
I’m just not sure the Rays agree. While I think an 11 man pitching staff should be fine, it seems like Maddon likes to have that extra bullpen arm to play matchups. I’m also not convinced that even if we went with an 11 man staff, that Canzler wouldn’t be that RH bench bat, if we chose to go bat over glove.
ReyL - January 18, 2012
I'm pretty pessimistic on Canzler after talking to non-interested parties about him
and the fact DanJo killed it down here only to look mostly hapless here. I know AAAA players can sometimes make it (Cruz) but six year minor league free agents? That’s a new market inefficiency
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
he's the same age guyer is.
rglass44 - January 19, 2012
I don't mind Betemit but I'd rather Pena, don't think we can get both.
Dbullsfan - January 18, 2012
No thanks to Betemit
If the whole team goes down is essentially Collette’s argument for him, but even that doesn’t make much sense. The main strength of the construction of the Rays lineup is the versatility and the depth. Roddy can play 1st, 2nd, SS or 3rd. Same for Zo if need be for short periods of time. Joyce is taking some reps at 1st and we obviously have depth in the OF with Guyer and Fuld. I’d rather Canzler or Miranda get a shot then us blow a couple mil and a roster spot on Betemit.
ShawnTSA - January 18, 2012
Juan Miranda has a lifetime slugging percentage of 420
I’m beginning to see why people like him so much now
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
And, no, this is a false representation of my argument
I want his bat on the bench. The bat is the primary and secondary wish for him, anything int he field is an afterthought. Better than league average wOBA over the past two seasons and has been 1-1.5 WAR. You throw $2M at a guy that has been worth >$5M each of the last two, and that’s a bargain for the bat.
Jason Collette - January 18, 2012
Craig Counsell: white middle infielder
Of course he’s cerebral. Also, scrappy.
nomoredevil - January 18, 2012
and BJ Upton...
Moore Guerreri and Cheese - January 18, 2012
totally off topic but how do you link twitter accounts int he post? I'd like to add mine
Dbullsfan - January 18, 2012
I hope you have more than 16 followers, that'd just be pathetic.
pudieron89 - January 18, 2012
Here you go...
https://twitter.com/about/resources/buttons
Steve Slowinski - January 18, 2012
Does anyone else hate these?
Sveet - January 18, 2012
Yes, I hate them!
nomoredevil - January 18, 2012
I don't hate them but it makes all their posts look the same
Ben Tumbling - January 18, 2012
Yes your right, but I finally had to join them
Follow @Imreallycool 1 follower (My Mom)
RayJzone - January 18, 2012
Yup.
Vin - January 18, 2012
WTF is going on around here?
The other day an epic trade fanpost gets deleted and now comments that are neither inflammatory or vulgar just start disappearing. Come on, it’s the internet.
ShawnTSA - January 18, 2012
Be careful. I think this is now a WTFFFP.
Passionate Apathy - January 18, 2012
SOPA.
Hatfield - January 18, 2012
PIPA
Ryan Gilliss - January 18, 2012
Yeah, Obama wants to get the internet out of Iraq
Or something…
nomoredevil - January 18, 2012
Big brother is watching
BossmanJunior333 - January 18, 2012 via mobile
Let's assume that the issue is
who should be the 25th man on the roster-the utility player. The choices are E. Johnson, Betemit, Theriot or Keppinger. Who would people want?
bobr - January 18, 2012
can i say helliot out of pure, simple hatred of the other 3 guys...
rglass44 - January 18, 2012
no
Sveet - January 18, 2012
I suppose it would make sense
if you think the Rays primary need in a utility player is a decent glove. On a 5 man bench where one will probably be Brignac or Sean Rodriguez depending who is starting that day, #2 & 3 are Fuld & Guyer and #4 is the second catcher, is that the top priority?
Or would it be better to select the best LH bat of the four choices?
bobr - January 18, 2012
my thinking is more in-line with your first point and considering cost.
it also depends in large part about who we sign for 1b.
rglass44 - January 18, 2012
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